The steaming and the froth is about as close to the Elektra Leva as I have seen and that's saying something.

Rytopa is on the money too about steaming small quantities. I manage to froth up tiny amounts of milk in a little 300ml jug without a problem. I find to start, get a bit of texture going and then simply rest the jug on the drip tray with the wand vertical and stand back. You can use either the auto stop or the digital thermometer.

I appreciate the replies. I just noticed on their website that they now state the suitcase is included with every machine (it used to be listed like a separate purchase so my apologies -- didn't realize they updated the site recently).

I get the quality of the foam. I love so much about this machine (size, features, possibilities) and would love to have a portable machine that I could do some light catering with for fun. I just don't see how you can do catering with the 110v machines. It will take 3+ minutes per milk drink so any sort of line and you're done.

Presently on my HX machine, I don't brew and steam at the same time because I really like to watch the bottomless shots develop. It's part of what I love about making espresso. When I'm in a hurry I'll do both but 95% of the time I'm like a deer in the headlights (lol). So in theory not doing both at the same time doesn't bother me. My HX machine can do 3 ounces of milk in about 5-7 seconds; 6 ounces in 15-20 seconds; and 8 ounces in 30 seconds. Those times are reasonable IMO and I really wouldn't want them to be too much slower, especially with the espresso just sitting there. Sounds like the DE1+ will take about twice as long to steam as my current machine. For someone who drinks primarily milk drinks, that's definitely the only negative I can find. Unfortunately, it's a pretty major one compared to 'traditional' HX and DB machines and how they steam.

JayBeck wrote:Those times are reasonable IMO and I really wouldn't want them to be too much slower, especially with the espresso just sitting there. Sounds like the DE1+ will take about twice as long to steam as my current machine. For someone who drinks primarily milk drinks, that's definitely the only negative I can find. Unfortunately, it's a pretty major one compared to 'traditional' HX and DB machines and how they steam.

This definitely is not a commercial or catering machine. You're right. Way too slow to steam. Even with two of these, you absolutely have to be able to simultaneously steam in 20 seconds or so (can probably stretch longer if the shot stops gravimetrically). Plus, this machine takes 10 seconds prior to the shot to circulate then flush water through the grouphead to adjust its temperature.

I'd encourage you to try an espresso after it sits for two minutes or so. I think the idea that espresso needs to be drunk immediately is a holdover from italian style espresso blends with large bitter components that needed to be drunk before they could be tasted. Like brewed coffee, espresso can be enjoyed colder if it is balanced and pulled well. Unfortunately, that's much more difficult to do than it is for brewed coffee.

popeye wrote:
Here's why: the machine pumps cold water into a coiled tube heater. As the water passes through the tube, it's heated to steam, and beyond (averages around 300 degrees, or 2 bar, well above other home or commercial machines.

2 bar is 272*F, high for a home or prosumer machine but not unusual for a commercial unit. The factory default setting on my Speedster's steam boiler is 2.3 bar but I run it at 2.1. I believe LM specs 1.8-2.0 bar for the GS3s??

Following with great interest. As much as I love my 3gr Athena Leva, she's getting on in years and could use a backup.

I have to admit being seduced by the DE1CAFE:

JohnB. wrote:2 bar is 272*F, high for a home or prosumer machine but not unusual for a commercial unit. The factory default setting on my Speedster's steam boiler is 2.3 bar but I run it at 2.1. I believe LM specs 1.8-2.0 bar for the GS3s??

So 272 is 2 bar. Interesting. Well the machine reports about 300-315 for the steam and 2-2.2 bar (it fluctuates). Must be because the sensors are in different parts of the machine. I do see that 300-315 is a theoretical 3-4 bar of pressure.

I've steamed on a GS3 but not a speedster. Maybe I don't know why then, but this is different than a GS3. It could be that the long steam time means I'm just doing a better job of it.

Almico wrote: I have to admit being seduced by the DE1CAFE:

Well I'm quite happy with my DE1+ but I actually think the first version of the CAFE is underwhelming. There will be 220v steaming but no dedicated pump to devote to steaming, so this first version will not be able to steam and brew at the same time. That's definitely a dealbreaker for commercial. Decent's solution at this time is to suggest you buy a standalone steamer from someone else.

The best use case for a CAFE right now is as a complement to your bar, in addition to a regular machine. Straight espressos on the CAFE, everything else either on the regular machine completely or steam on the regular, pull on the decent. But it's not a high volume solution.

Long term, the 10-15 seconds or so that the pre-shot warmup routine takes can still be a barrier to commercial ops. Furthermore, you're gonna be tempted to pull all sorts of longer profiles on the machine. However, I could definitely see it doing passable aeropress style cups and possible even drip coffee cups all on one machine. (of course, that will really slow things down).

For super high end shops, outputting the video from the tablet on to a big screen could be entertaining for customers to watch. Sorta novelty effect for a year or two.

I'm not that familiar with the workings of the DE machines, why do you need a pump to steam?

Also, I'm not opposed to having a couple of single purpose, dedicated steamers.

Almico wrote:I'm not that familiar with the workings of the DE machines, why do you need a pump to steam?

I talked about it a little up this thread, basically, the machine pumps water through a tube heater which it converts to steam. No pump, the steam would come out both ends of the tube. Pump supplies pressure to make it only come out one end.

Ah-ha...makes sense. I might still like the idea of a dedicated steamer. I sometimes get an order for 4 lattes and 3 cappuccinos at once. I have a 55oz pitcher for the purpose. Do we think the DE1CAFE can steam that much milk and keep up with a 23L boiler on a "proper" 3gr machine?