Recovery time between shots?

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Ursego
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#1: Post by Ursego »

Is there any recovery time required between shots? It's an espresso machine with brass 300 ml single boiler and a 1200 W heater (Lelit Victoria). My previous machine (Breville Infuser) had a thermocoil which always produced water on demand with the same temperature, so I could do shot after shot after shot with the same settings. Now I am switching to the world of "real boiler" machines. The first shot after heat up (after the first switch on in the morning or after a stand-by) is good (using the grind size, registered in the journal), but the second, made soon, suddenly reveals, that the grind size is absolutely incorrect. OK, I dial in and fix the number in the journal accordingly. Then, after a stand-by, I do a shot with that new number and see, that it is incorrect too! In fact, the first number was correct, I didn't had to fix it!!! I know, that my grinder (Niche Zero) is fantastically consistent (I enjoyed that consistency for many months with my previous machine), so the problem is definitely with the new machine, or my lack of experience with "real boiler" machines. I did a couple of shots waiting for a while between them - the situation is better, but I still experience the problem. Is there any minimum recovery time? BTW, the temperature in the PID display is not changing at all. But I am not sure which temperature is that: the actual one, or one I asked (i.e. the goal of the PID - maybe, not reached yet)? I am already thinking about returning the machine and buying Ascaso Steel Uno Professional w/ PID which has a thermocoil (mistakenly named thermoblock) I am used to. Any advice and ideas? If I do something incorrectly, I would like to improve my skills and keep the Lelit. Thanks!

samuellaw178
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#2: Post by samuellaw178 »

How soon are you making the second shot? The recovery time really depends on the machine. I am not familar with Lelit Victoria, but I would hazard a guess that 1-3 minutes is a reasonable recovery time for home machines. Have you tried letting the machine recover for a bit longer before pulling the second shot to confirm it is indeed a recovery issue?

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Ursego (original poster)
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#3: Post by Ursego (original poster) »

This morning I brewed a shot - 49 gr in cup. After 2 minutes - flasing (to clean the group). After 11 more minutes - another shot - with exactly the same grind size and extraction time. 42 gr in cup. :( According to my almost 2 years experience with Breville Infuser, the second shot shold be 49 gr, not even 48! And immediately - but I was waiting 11 minutes!

vit
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#4: Post by vit »

I don't have that machine, but time you need to prepare the next shot should be enough. Even my very entry level 200 ml 1000 W DeLonghi machine without any PID needs less than a half minute to heat up the boiler back to the temperature

samuellaw178
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#5: Post by samuellaw178 »

In that case, it doesn't sound like a machine recovery issue. It is more likely to be a grind or puck preparation (channeling) issue. Perhaps the Lelit Victoria is more demanding on the puck preparation technique compared to the Breville Infuser. Are you using a bottomless portafilter by any chance?

tracer bullet
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#6: Post by tracer bullet »

The PID question should be able to be easily answered, as to what it is showing. If when first turned on it reads ambient temps and then climbs towards the set point, it's reading "actual" temp.

Keep in mind however it's just temp at its probe location and not group head or anything else.

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Ursego (original poster)
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#7: Post by Ursego (original poster) »

The temperature climbs only after morning switch on or when waking up from stand by. After the first shot it never drops, even immediately after shot.
samuellaw178 wrote:In that case, it doesn't sound like a machine recovery issue. It is more likely to be a grind or puck preparation (channeling) issue. Perhaps the Lelit Victoria is more demanding on the puck preparation technique compared to the Breville Infuser. Are you using a bottomless portafilter by any chance?
Not yet, I will buy it soon. But the packs are looking good. I had a couple of bad packs, but I did't take them into account - thay were obviously incorrect. But, who knows, I can have not obviously bad packs... I use a tooth stick and a temper wich clicks (those clicks always produce the same pressure).

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slipchuck
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#8: Post by slipchuck »

Crazy question are you weighing the dry grounds first?


Randy
“There is nobody you can’t learn to like once you’ve heard their story.”

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Ursego (original poster)
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#9: Post by Ursego (original poster) »

I am weighting beans before grinding (it's a single-dosing grinder), so the beans weight is constant. In my old Infuser I usually did 1:1.67 brew ratio for myself (30 gr from 18 gr beans) and 1:3 for my wife (54 gr), so both bean weight and drink weight were constant. Time was the correctness indicator, telling me to change the grinder setting. But the timer of Lelit Victoria counts back (25, 24, 23...), so time is constant too now. That forces me to change the habit and use drink weight as the indicator. Very bad idea :twisted:! With the the same brew ratio, two shots with brew time 22 and 30 seconds are still very similar. But drinks with slightly different weight in cup (i. e. brew ratios) differ from each other like day and night. I am thinking of returning the machine and buying one with a normal timer (1, 2, 3...).

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Jake_G
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#10: Post by Jake_G »

Can you pull shots manually without the timer terminating the shot?

How much coffee have you ran through the NZ? It can take a fair amount (several kg) before the burrs are seasoned. I'm not saying the burrs are causing the problem, but seasoning does tend to improve the shot to shot consistency.

I would be hard pressed to get along with a machine that forced me to terminate the shots based on a timer alone...

Cheers!

-Jake
LMWDP #704