I have an Astoria 2 group lever machine from 1992. I believe it would be classified as a Gloria today, although there is no denomination on the machine itself, and a model number search only reveals that it is an AL-2 (Astoria Lever 2 group, I'm assuming).
I want to convert it entirely to propane, although when I spoke to CMA, the man who helped me said I'd still need electricity to run the machine. This seems wrong to me, as I've seen astorias run without power before. Any help in this vein would be deeply appreciated.
Below are pictures of the machine in mid-refurb.

Could you give us some more context as to why you want to run it with no power? How will the machine be used?

With a propane burner and levers, you have what would require a very small amount of electricity to run mostly as it sits. The biggest hurdles that I see with your proposal are the autofill function and consistent water supply.

The autofill function could be done manually via your eyeballs and a lever on the front of the machine but would take a good deal of attention to not over/underfill it during use. If you are diligent and the only user, it might be workable.

I'm not a lever expert so please challenge any inaccuracies but all of the big CMA machines that I know only work if they have positive water pressure at the inlet. If you will have good water pressure coming in whether from static head (putting a bucket a distance above the machine) or line pressure (city/well water) then you can probably get away without a motorized pump.

WES

Nice looking machine I am mid way into a rebuild on a Rancilio Z9 and am looking at gas firing it too. The original gas conversion for it requires no power at all and you just use the manual fill option for the boiler and powered pump if required (I am going 12V). From my understanding of the setup the gas burners are temperature controlled from a gas thermostat (requires setting initially) and do not use the pressurestat at all so any current internal wiring is not needed.

Pic below is of the Z9 setup

beanflying wrote: From my understanding of the setup the gas burners are temperature controlled from a gas thermostat (requires setting initially) and do not use the pressurestat at all so any current internal wiring is not needed.

I dunno how that works, but oddly enough it came up at a coffee shop just yesterday. A friend has a two group Astoria lever that is already (as I understand it) outfitted for gas, and I wondered how the temperature is regulated. The P-stat is easy. It's a switch with the contacts tied to a diaphragm that is moved by the ensuing pressure created by the heating of the boiler. Diaphragm goes down, when pressure drops, closing the contacts which turns on the heater which heats the water which creates pressure which pushes the diaphragm up which opens the contacts which allows the water to cool which reduces pressure which.... wash, rinse repeat...

How's the gas system work? (BTW, I'll send him here to take a look and see if he can check on things in his machines). David?

I run my 1964 two group Gaggia on gas till the temperature reaches 110c, then I switch to electricity and PID temperature control.

I suppose you could run on gas only, but not with the regular supplied gas systems, for one thing you would need a pilot burner.

The Astoria gas unit is stil available, see the link below.

http://www.eunasa.com/en/despiece.php/c ... /gas-group

Conti also sells their Classika gas heating system. 94E for a 2 group complete system.
http://www.conti-spareparts.com/Site/index.php

We have the same AL-2 with both gas and 220v electrical. The gas system is very simple and it coexists with the electrical. The machine works just as well unplugged with no electrical as the autofill has been disabled and uses only manual fill. The gas system has a steam line taken from high on the boiler just like a pstat line which goes to the gas pstat valve. When the pressure in the line is low the valve opens all the way and the flames are large and as the boiler heats the flames slowly diminish in size until they are about the size of birthday candles. A small decrease in pressure makes the flames a bit larger and a large drop in pressure such as when adding water of using the steam wand makes the flames instantly jump again to full size. It is a much more responsive system than the electrical since the element is either on or off and does not have all of the small incremental changes like the gas flame. There is no pilot light since the entire burner remains lit, though the flames are small when the boiler is cruising at the preset pressure. the pressure valve is set just like a pstat and the reading is taken from the manometer on the face of the machine.

the only catch with the gas system is that one must take the time to adjust the flame jet correctly for the gas you are using as with all propane units or natural gas, carbon monoxide can be produced if the flame is not adjusted correctly and it can be like using a gas BBQ indoors. When using the machine in our closed shop we always use the electrical but it is fun to roll it outdoors and hook up a water hose and propane bottle and pull shots al fresco....feels a lot like riding in a car with the top down.

Pinched the bit below from Espressotec Canada on the Rancilio, the kit for the Izzo I have apparently runs much the same way too so no power needed.

The Classe 6/LE has a Rancilio factory propane kit installed by our own technicians. Merely press the piezo start button (red button lower right front panel), hold in the pilot/regulator knob (left of the piezo start button) and the burner heats the boiler water. The built-in thermocouple regulates the boiler temperature for you (just like a gas furnace, the flame turns up/down as called for by the thermocouple). In propane operation, the boiler must be filled manually (using the manual lever tap). The boiler sight glass on the front panel makes the job easy.

If the machine is hooked up to 220V power the boiler fills automatically and the 4600W boiler element operates in the normal manner. In the case where the machine is located in an area with minimal power availability (less than 20 Amps) and the machine is not going to be pressed hard, it is possible to disconnect one leg of the element. This reduces the draw to about 13 Amps but the machine of course will take longer to heat up and recovery will be less than optimum. Of course it is possible to supplement the electric power with propane if so desired - both systems are independent of each other, and this will actually boost the output (primarily steam and hot water recovery times).

Note: the propane system must be connected and tested by a qualified and certified gas/propane technician adhering to all municipal, provincial and state laws that may be in force in the areas where the machine will be operated. Several different jet orifices are included for optimum configuration. Minimum and maximum boiler temperature cutouts will also need to be calibrated by the technician.

orphanespresso wrote:the pressure in the line is low the valve opens all the way and the flames are large and as the boiler heats the flames slowly diminish in size... ...There is no pilot light since the entire burner remains lit... ...the pressure valve is set just like a pstat and the reading is taken from the manometer on the face of the machine.

That is such a good explanation, Doug, that I already feel like a Qualified Propane Espresso Technician!
Just kidding, although I do feel like I know enough to offer suggestions as to why the system isn't working if I find one stranded by the side of the road.

Makes perfect sense.

And there are a whole raft of folk suggesting that it's controlled by a thermocouple like your home furnace systems, but all of those *do* run on electricity. Gas makes the heat, of course, but electricity makes the controls. I've seen too many machines without access to roving electrons corralled into copper to believe that they all had nine volt batteries hidden somewhere on their chassis.

I have converted a 1996 2gr astoria to gas. Used a wega gas kit and custom made the burner mounts. It is all solid state, no electricity required. If you employed a foot pump with check valve for the cold water in you could run it without power. A better solution is to use a 12v deep cycle battery and inverter to supply the 300w needed to run the autofill.