Profitec Pro 600 Review from a Pro 500 Vet.

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homeslice

#1: Post by homeslice »

My Profitec 600 review is based on 5 months of daily use making 2-4 drinks after formerly owning the lower model, the Profitec 500 for 1.5 years. Same grinder with routine cleanings and single dose extractions and both boiler and steam temps are maxed and at proper boiler temp.

First are the quick feature comparisons. The Pro600 has a slightly quieter pump than the pro 500, brew pressure dial in front rather than the internals like the 500 for occasional adjustments, boiler/steamer PID displayed, (rather than the pointless lone steamer PID behind the drip tray of the 500) and the potential for 2 bar steaming pressure for silky milk drinks similar to coffee shops.

After having the PRO 500 and upgrading to this machine I found the cons a serious downfall to a machine of its price point.

First, the double boiler is very misleading in it's lack of persistent performance consumers expect from a DB machine. Here's why, sellers market DB machines as workhorses that can brew up multiple drinks at a time. They don't specify where limitations lie in making water-based drinks and milk drinks, which is very misleading. In this case making an americano before a latte wipes out the steaming pressure completely, requiring several minutes to get it back to 2 bar. To have the silky milk quality of that 2 bar requires making lattes first before any water based drink such as Americanos. Make the mistake out of order and be ready for a long wait. :roll:

Second drawback to this machine is the wait time for 2 bar pressure routinely. Even a split second first purge and the steaming pressure drops low enough to require up to two+ minutes to reach full 2 bar pressure again. It's like advertising a gaming console that takes several minutes to load games everytime. It's obnoxious. So I was sold on upgrading to a pro600 for the 2 bar steaming power it was heavily marketed for without knowing the limitations.After a few months I begun taking my routine and twisted the order. 1.) Purge the steamer. 2.) grind 3.) tamp 4.) extract 5.) get your milk ready 6.) Steam. Hopefully the pressure returns to 2 bar by the time you're actually ready to froth. Consistency, high steaming pressure, and efficiency comes at a cost this price point should be offering; which it almost does, but with a specific order of operation, and acceptance that not all DBs are what are marketed as. Home espresso machine representatives have responded that I should accept 1.3 bar pressure for making drinks with this machine. Who the hell settles with that? Talk about missing out on the key features there Sampson. :|
So at $400 more than the Pro500 you pay: $100 for .75-1 higher bar of pressure, $100 for a slightly quieter pump, $100 for a brew pressure gauge at the front of the machine, (rarely use) and $100 for a attached shot timer and boiler PID.

Overall, the 600 isn't much different from the heat exchange 500. If you're fine with the milk drinks under 2 bar with similar production time, slightly louder and a separate timer (timer on a phone) at the ready by the machine, than go with the pro 500. If you want the full package of convenience and can build a practiced routine to make 2 bar steam pressure lattes efficiently, enjoy the 600. It's a good machine with a necessary learning curve you 're on you're own for.

randyh
Supporter

#2: Post by randyh »

I would think the biggest benefit of the pro 600 would be the dedicated PID brew boiler, so you can dial in a specific brew temp. I've owned my pro 500 for 4.5 years, and that's the one feature I want, as otherwise the flush technique for HX machines is a bit of a guessing game to get the right brew temp even with the brew group thermometer. I'm perfectly happy with everything else about the pro 500.

homeslice (original poster)

#3: Post by homeslice (original poster) »

I would have believed that would be a benefit too but I'm not changing my beans often and haven't tasted a difference between shots from the 500 and 600. If I've noticed anything slightly different its that extractions are less prone to channeling through my bottomless portafilter but even that's a stretch to claim from temperature accuracy.

Bluenoser

#4: Post by Bluenoser »

Over 3 years, I have found the Espresso machine industry is more unique than any other I have been involved. There are virtually zero performance standards for any of the classic E61 machines.. Things like: What is the steam drop from 1.4bar? How long is the steam recovery to 80%, 90%? What is the time interval between shots when making numerous shots? What is the range of brew water temps from the displayed setting? How do you calibrate the PID of a DB at home, with no equipment? I think Profitec/ECM make good builds, but they provide virtually none of this type of important information on their machines. This makes it virtually impossible to deal with a vendor when your expectation of the machine does not meet with its sales pitch (ie: 2 bar steaming..)

Even with your Pro500, your steam likely went from 1.4bar to .6bar as soon as you turned the knob (mine does) so the Pro600 will perform similar.. but I would not have guessed the time it takes to rebound to 2bar. If your Pro600 is steaming at 1.4bar after opening the valve, it is significantly stronger than the Pro500. The very best I can get from mine is .9 and only if I do a 30 seconds purge first.

Although I haven't used a DB, I would guess that likely there is little difference from the taste of a Pro500 shot and Pro600 shot (w/o FC) .(assuming you have a group thermometer on the 500 and can keep the brew water where you want it) . .. But the rebound time would be significant. My Pro500 takes about 5-10 minutes to rebound between shots and you'd gain performance here on the Pro600 DB... You can pull two shots back-back on your Pro500 but likely the brew water is dropping quite a bit.. without a thermometer in the group you won't know that.. but now I use a Robot over my Pro500 and only use its steaming capability. Manuals are surprisingly good now .. its almost like you need to take a serious several thousand dollar hike to gain a significant difference over a robot or Flair 58.

PIXIllate
Supporter ♡

#5: Post by PIXIllate »

You can't use the 500 without a group head thermometer and expect stable shot to shot temperatures.

consistent shot temperatures are a major variable in producing the best possible extractions.

You can't use a flow control properly without a group mounted pressure gauge.
Flow control can be a major step forward in shot quality depending on the beans and roast level.

You can't have both gauges installed at the same time. Well, not without a messy workaround.

I'm sorry but I simply don't beleive a HX500 is as consistent or capable of producing the same quality shots as a dual boiler 600 with flow control in experienced hands.

slaughter

#6: Post by slaughter »

All I read in your post is your complaint about the 2bar pressure. And not the benefits from temperature stability that the DB is offering. since you drink mainly milk based drinks almost any espresso shot will be fine that is why you didn't comment on DB temp stability. Regarding the 2 bar pressure my Bianca is also capable of that but I find it not required in order to steam my milk. at around 1,7 it is fine even with the two hole tip and recovery is quite fast. the problem in your case must be the 110v version that is not have the power of 220v in my case. in my opinion upgrading from p500 to p600 is for the stability and not the power. your p500 boiler was 2lt and p600 is 1lt that is why you are seen these differences.

homeslice (original poster)

#7: Post by homeslice (original poster) » replying to slaughter »

Maybe read the whole review instead of cherrypicking? The temperature stabilization wasn't a distinct feature after coming from using a pro500 since learning to stabilize the temp on it was actually quite easy. And no, I drink Americanos while my wife drinks lattes. Sounds like you never had a profitec machine or understand what features should be common place to use regularly and easily on the pro600. Maybe chime in on the Bianca reviews instead? And yes I know the size of the boiler which also makes the pro600 db pointless in capacity and poor in consistancy for multiple drinks. Had you read more you'd see that marketing features that don't deliver is a problem coming from Profitec sellers.

homeslice (original poster)

#8: Post by homeslice (original poster) »

PIXIllate wrote:You can't use the 500 without a group head thermometer and expect stable shot to shot temperatures.

consistent shot temperatures are a major variable in producing the best possible extractions.

You can't use a flow control properly without a group mounted pressure gauge.
Flow control can be a major step forward in shot quality depending on the beans and roast level.

You can't have both gauges installed at the same time. Well, not without a messy workaround.

I'm sorry but I simply don't beleive a HX500 is as consistent or capable of producing the same quality shots as a dual boiler 600 with flow control in experienced hands.
You are aware that the pro600 doesn't have flow control standard right? And where did I ever mention taste and consistency issues from a temp. difference between my db and my former hx because I didn't have that issue. Adding flow control would make nearly a $3k machine and maybe a Bianca DB would be a better fit to such a pricepoint.

Plinyyounger

#9: Post by Plinyyounger »

This isn't going to go well, lol.

"Maybe read the whole review instead of cherrypicking? The temperature stabilization wasn't a distinct feature after coming from using a pro500 since learning to stabilize the temp on it was actually quite easy. And no, I drink Americanos while my wife drinks lattes. Sounds like you never had a profitec machine or understand what features should be common place to use regularly and easily on the pro600. Maybe chime in on the Bianca reviews instead? And yes I know the size of the boiler which also makes the pro600 db pointless in capacity and poor in consistancy for multiple drinks. Had you read more you'd see that marketing features that don't deliver is a problem coming from Profitec sellers".
Bought a Max, used a Max, then sold the Max. We are splitting hairs.

homeslice (original poster)

#10: Post by homeslice (original poster) »

Bluenoser wrote:Over 3 years, I have found the Espresso machine industry is more unique than any other I have been involved. There are virtually zero performance standards for any of the classic E61 machines.. Things like: What is the steam drop from 1.4bar? How long is the steam recovery to 80%, 90%? What is the time interval between shots when making numerous shots? What is the range of brew water temps from the displayed setting? How do you calibrate the PID of a DB at home, with no equipment? I think Profitec/ECM make good builds, but they provide virtually none of this type of important information on their machines. This makes it virtually impossible to deal with a vendor when your expectation of the machine does not meet with its sales pitch (ie: 2 bar steaming..)

Even with your Pro500, your steam likely went from 1.4bar to .6bar as soon as you turned the knob (mine does) so the Pro600 will perform similar.. but I would not have guessed the time it takes to rebound to 2bar. If your Pro600 is steaming at 1.4bar after opening the valve, it is significantly stronger than the Pro500. The very best I can get from mine is .9 and only if I do a 30 seconds purge first.

Although I haven't used a DB, I would guess that likely there is little difference from the taste of a Pro500 shot and Pro600 shot (w/o FC) .(assuming you have a group thermometer on the 500 and can keep the brew water where you want it) . .. But the rebound time would be significant. My Pro500 takes about 5-10 minutes to rebound between shots and you'd gain performance here on the Pro600 DB... You can pull two shots back-back on your Pro500 but likely the brew water is dropping quite a bit.. without a thermometer in the group you won't know that.. but now I use a Robot over my Pro500 and only use its steaming capability. Manuals are surprisingly good now .. its almost like you need to take a serious several thousand dollar hike to gain a significant difference over a robot or Flair 58.
Regarding my pro500 Purging the hx machine on first shots dropped the temp to appropriate heat. The second shots without purge were at similar temp. I didn't need rebound time more than 3 minutes since I was making the pucks by single dose and never lost steam power for a several minute wait like I would have with the 600 machine. But I guess anyone tasting a totally different drink that changes by 1 degree F/C should just stop drinking espresso till they get a DECENT machine. And why are you doing a 30 second purge????