Profitec Pro 600 Review from a Pro 500 Vet. - Page 3

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Bluenoser

#21: Post by Bluenoser »

homeslice wrote: For the 600 it's the Americanos that make the db a "faux" db. An issue I never had with my HX pro500. So accepting less performance to a more expensive model isn't acceptable. It's a faux DB at a $2400 pricetag that can't be argued. Profitec's attempt at delivering a db unit in a HX shell (to likely save costs) is a poor design with a boiler pid unit to make up for it. Happy with the PID but the machine needs improvements.
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Maybe we need to define how you make an Americano..Are you making a normal shot (18g in, 36g out) and using hot water from the wand to add another, say 150g. (Now I assume the hot water comes from the steam boiler) Or maybe you are using more of the steam boiler water, say 250g.. So from a 1L steam boiler that might be significant. Or maybe you are filling your water from your brew boiler and draining it . Either way Maybe this is why you are taking 5 minutes to reheat.. others who have a 600 can test by duplicating your method of making an Americano and maybe you can find out if this is typical of all 600's or only yours.

I will say that many use hot water from a kettle because the hot water from the steam boiler has a high concentration of minerals. If you are using the brew boiler, then maybe that is just bad practice and a change in your routine is all you need to fix.

I agree that when a machine does not perform well, it is a real disappointment.. but maybe you have a procedural problem that can fix your issue and give you better performance.. It is like software.. while some view software should meet users needs.. all people eventually learn they need to adapt to the limitation of the software to have the best experience..

The Pro500 has double the steam boiler and so you don't drain that as fast .. and it is natural that it would rebound faster.. mostly because it is often only heating up to 252, rather than 270F (for 2 bar) .

People here aren't criticizing your review for no reason.. they just haven't experienced your issue and so it might help to see if there is a procedural issue that might offer a cure.

PIXIllate
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#22: Post by PIXIllate »

{I'll probably regret this but I'll ask anyway.)

You are heating up the machine for 45-60 minutes before using it, right?

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JB90068
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#23: Post by JB90068 »

homeslice wrote:JB90068 I am making two drinks at once, an Americano and a latte which I have to make the latte first before the Americano seeps the machine entirely of pressure for 5 minutes. Yes, 5 minutes to get 2 bar and 4 to get 1.6. As if waiting for that makes any sense, beginner or not.
This makes me wonder if there is a problem with your 600 that needs to be fixed.

Here is my reason: In the last few weeks my wife has started drinking a 12oz mug of tea instead of her normal cappuccino. I fill her mug first from the boiler so that the tea can steep, then I immediately make my cappuccino. Before I fill her mug I've ground my beans and tamped, along with pre-filled the milk pitcher. I'm giving you all the details so you will understand that there is no more than 15 seconds between when I draw the 12oz for the tea to when I start pulling my shot. My machine has no lag unlike yours. As I mentioned in an earlier post, our machines share many of the same components and what you are asking it to do is very similar to what I'm now doing. I would even suggest that you may be pulling less water for your americano than I am for the tea and subsequently stressing your 600 a little less.

Indulge me to ask some stupid questions: what is your boiler temp set at and what is your steaming temp? Also you wrote that making the americano seeps the machine for 5 minutes to get two bars built back up.

Understand, I'm not being critical of you or of your review. What you have written so far just makes me and others wonder if there is something wrong that we can help you troubleshoot. More succinctly put, it doesn't make sense that your 600 should have such a pressure lag based on what you have written and it leaves me wondering why.
Old baristas never die. They just become over extracted.

Gargamel40

#24: Post by Gargamel40 »

homeslice wrote:First off Gargamel40 get it through your head that dealers don't discuss details of efficient function from back-to-back drinks to each machine they're selling and nobody gets the experience from a Profitec website. You always buy cars purely off everything posted on the website and get everything you want from it alone? You'd be a first. If people are going to see the features provided they should be seeing what this proclaimed DB can do and that is from more than one extraction, including DIFFERENT DRINKS.



JB90068 I am making two drinks at once, an Americano and a latte which I have to make the latte first before the Americano seeps the machine entirely of pressure for 5 minutes. Yes, 5 minutes to get 2 bar and 4 to get 1.6. As if waiting for that makes any sense, beginner or not.

I think the more common problem many here criticizing reviews for (a notorious problem to this forum I backed out long ago over) was that "drinks" is a broad term determining rebound time even dealers never discuss with their customers. Lattes aren't a problem back-to-back since I have a few years making drinks on home espresso machines and know what to expect from routine practice. For the 600 it's the Americanos that make the db a "faux" db. An issue I never had with my HX pro500. So accepting less performance to a more expensive model isn't acceptable. It's a faux DB at a $2400 pricetag that can't be argued. Profitec's attempt at delivering a db unit in a HX shell (to likely save costs) is a poor design with a boiler pid unit to make up for it. Happy with the PID but the machine needs improvements.

A newcomer would likely accept these issues if the 600 was their first espresso machine or perhaps coming from a Silvia. Anything that doesn't take 8 minutes a drink is fast. I could dish out both an americano and latte I was satisfied with in less than 8 minutes with the 500. The 600 needs particular order to get the most out of the unit which takes longer and I don't buy dealers are discussing that. I don't feel like I was lied to. I feel like I wasn't told what to expect and that's what consumer always want, especially going for a pro "upgrade" by a dealer and not directly online. I explained order to try getting the best out of the unit in reasonable time which it struggles with in my review. Newcomers, enjoy it and message me with anymore questions. The few else that don't like it, deal with it.
It's you, who should deal with it. Call your dealer or manufacturer and complain.
No espresso machine manufacturer gives you this kind of information so what's your point? And no dealer will have 20 machines lined up and brew you different drinks on them so you can decide which one to buy. That's the way it is.

You should get it through your thick head that you are using machine wrong. You can't make Americano with water from the machine and expect to have steam right after. First, water is bad quality because of mineral build up and second, water comes from steam boiler and you drained it by 20, 30% at least.

Of course manufacturers should fix this and hot water shouldn't effect the steam pressure and water should be good tasting. That's what i wanted to have in a good espresso machine so i wouldn't need to put on a kettle for Americano. But basically all machines work like this and i don't know why they don't change it. It's a well known fact and crying about it won't help. Change a routine a bit.

PIXIllate
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#25: Post by PIXIllate »

Okay, time for some real numbers. This is not directed at anyone, just some facts.

This morning I ran some timed tests on a FULLY HEATED UP (60+ minutes) Profitec 600.

- Pulled ~200g of water from the hot water tap
- This triggered the pump to refill the service boiler
- Time to recovery of 2.2 Bar Steam pressure was 30 seconds

- Steamed ~180g whole milk for my neighbors cappuccino (yes, I'm an amazing neighbor) immediately after pulling a 37 second flow profiled shot
- Started timer as soon as I shut off the steam
- Ran two purge blasts through the wand while the timer was running to make sure to trigger the pump
- Time to recovery of 2.2 Bar Steam pressure was 30 seconds

My Monolith grinder takes 60+ seconds to grind an 18g dose, most grinders are faster than this.
My puck prep (RDT, WDT, tamp) routine takes ~15-20 seconds

If you are outstripping this machine while pulling shots then you are:

1) Not heating up your machine properly
2) Using a very fast grinder AND
3) Not preparing your pucks properly/optimally
4) Broken Profitec 600

End of facts.
That is all.
★ Helpful

Bluenoser

#26: Post by Bluenoser »

Great info, Chris.. only when you put some hard data at a problem can you determine where the issue is. Hopefully the OP gets a chance to document his findings to compare.

Edit: From lack of reply from OP, am assuming he discovered a procedural problem