Profitec Pro 600 help - espresso is always sour - Page 2

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CuanMcLuus (original poster)

#11: Post by CuanMcLuus (original poster) »

Not sure if you mean 10-15 min in between flushes or from cold but definitely need a solid warmup time
I meant in between flushes. The machine was on for +1h before, so that should definitely not be the problem.


#12: Post by LObin »

Air in the TS is my guess then.
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#13: Post by Bluenoser » replying to LObin »

The PRO 600 is a DB.. I didn't think there was a TS in that design.. but I'm sure its still possible to get some air locked into the brew water path from pump to group. Wonder if something is not tight and introducing air into that path.


#14: Post by LObin »

It's an E61 group. There is no HX but there is a hot water pipe and a cold water pipe circling water from the brew boiler, to the e61 and back to the brew boiler.
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CuanMcLuus (original poster)

#15: Post by CuanMcLuus (original poster) »

I've used the blank and unscrewed the top nut until there was only water coming out. There was a little air in there but not that much, 2 times for 5sec was enough.

Before that I've also drained the Boiler following this guide.
No difference in taste though.

I also feel like I probably need a good reference from a coffeshop nearby soon. After all that experimentation i get the feeling that I'm unable to tell what's good and what not.


#16: Post by LObin »

Any visible and audible difference when flushing?
Still air coming out and poor water distribution or that's fixed?
If it hasn't changed, I would keep bleeding air right after the next few shots just to be absolutely certain that this box is checked.
Maybe a video of a shot...?
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CuanMcLuus (original poster)

#17: Post by CuanMcLuus (original poster) »

I'd say there is no difference (@98°C):

Didn't have much time yesterday but I've got yet another bean, for which the barista said it's pretty much impossible to get a sour shot.
Well I'd say it's sour on my machine..

I've had a few friends over and they all said it's either sour or bitter or both, they were not really sure, but the shots were not good that was clear. One of them uses the same new beans with ESE Pads and a quite cheap machine. He said they are way better on his machine.

I guess I'll have to contact the shop where i got the machine.

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#18: Post by Jake_G » replying to CuanMcLuus »

You should not be getting flash steam and gurgling like that at 98°C. I would set your PID to 99°C and lower your offset until there is no gurgling at all and then set it to 101°C and verify there is gurgling (increase offset a few degrees if needed to obtain this) and then check again at 99. The offset is correct when there is a very distinct difference between sub-boiling and super-heated water temps.

Once your offset is correct (boiling above 100, calm brew water below 100), set your temp to 94°C and pull a few shots. I think your water is too hot, based on your videos.


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#19: Post by korbus »

Before giving up, if you're not doing this already, just try what F1 recommends in post #17 from below: Is flushing E61 required for non-HX espresso machines?
It surely helped me, as i was about to contact the vendor or return my machine. The warming flush just before you pull the shot is an absolute must on this machine, as is allowing it to heat up properly (at least 45 mins, preferably one hour).
I've registered just to throw my 2 cents in, hopefully it will help you.

CuanMcLuus (original poster)

#20: Post by CuanMcLuus (original poster) »

So i did what Jake_G suggested and set the temp to 99°C and lowered the E1 offset until there was no gurgling left. All tests had ~10min in between, with a good hour of heating up before. Default was set to 15 and i had to lower it to 10. So 5°C lower in total.

I mostly went by sound (gurgling) and steam as the water stream looks very similar at these temperatures imho. There is now almost no to maybe just a little gurgling at 99°C and some clear gurgling at 101°C.

Lowered it back to 94°C and pulled a shot, doing a 3sec warming flush just before the shot like korbus suggested.

Well I'd say that was the best shot with this beans so far..! I kind of fear that i was focused so much on sour & too low temp. that didn't actually experiment that much on lower temperatures. I'm still confused as i tried on lower temperatures (88°C) and it was undrinkable. 88°C would have been these 5°C I've lowered the offset now, so that should've been good. Also i would have confused sour and bitter this whole time..

Well I'll continue to experiment on the current temp. offset and hope that was actually the problem.