I'd still like a temperature sensor with a E61 group.. something located near the screen area. The PID is in the brew boiler and there are lots of influences between that and the E61 group. If your group is cold, then it will cool the brew water much.. if it is hot (you've just done a flush after 1 hour on). It will obviously not cool the brew water. Thus, all the PIDs have an offset built in, but with an E61 it cannot be exact as these influencers change with time, work flow, environment. You also have no idea when your E61 group head is heated sufficiently (from off). Generally it takes about 45 minutes, but if you are in a hurry, you don't know where the group temp sits at, say, 30 minutes. All you know is the PID reading from the brew boiler.

Saturated groups have much smaller groups and the brew boiler is in the group so there is much less of an influence by external influences.

You may buy an E61 DB thinking you control the brew water exactly, but the manufacturers have not provided enough data for a user to do that. (IMO)

Good points! I know the Pro 600 (prob due to smaller boilers) gets up to temp pretty quickly, seems to be around 10 minutes. The e61 group is obviously not up to temp in this time though. I shot a laser thermometer at the group and it seems to be stable within 30 minutes though, maybe less. I'll have to experiment and test this. I've pulled shots in 30 minutes and cannot taste any difference between those and shots with the machine left on for over an hour. I do have a WIFI timer so I can turn the unit on from my cell phone at any time for convenience. From my usage and not having had a bad shot yet... I don't think I would want an e61 group thermometer (at least yet). I hear they are awesome and I'm sure they are! I don't really like the look (in such a beautiful, chrome machine) and my shots are awesome so no need as of yet anyway.
You do have good valid points though!

A week in and still amazing!

A regular shot.

A Latte (the way the wife likes it )

cpro48609 wrote: I hear they are awesome and I'm sure they are! I don't really like the look (in such a beautiful, chrome machine) and my shots are awesome so no need as of yet anyway.
You do have good valid points though!

I agree; there should be no reason, today, that we need to add an external thermometer when we have a digital control unit and display available. My E61 group takes about 45 minutes to really stabilize. Not sure if the 600 has a more direct connection and shortens this time.. 10 minutes will not be enough and that is where the group would cool your water below your PID setting. You'd need a SCACE to test. The 600 does look like a nice machine.. I would like the option of 2bar steam to see if my milk froth would get a bit more consistent.. I seem to have too much foam at the end. Likely a barista problem

cpro48609 wrote:A week in and still amazing!

A regular shot.
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A Latte (the way the wife likes it )
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Awesome! Can't wait to get my machine and start picking your brain if you don't mind! Should be here Monday!

Nice! I think you'll love it. I'm no expert lol but happy to answer any questions that you may have about the unit.
Forgot to ask.. what grinder did you get?

Thanks for your helpful video!

I am interested in upgrading my coffee experience from a trusted Rancilio Silvia to a dual boiler PID espresso machine.

So far I narrowed my choice to either the Profitec Pro 600 or the Expobar Brewtus 4.

Now I do have one worry. The Brewtus has two switches: one to switch on the whole device, one for the steam boiler. As I only drink espresso during the day, I would like the steam boiler to be off during the day. Can I also do this easily with the Profitec? It seems to have only one switch. It seems tedious to have to use the PID controls to switch off the steam boiler every day ...

Thanks for your advice!