Power/pump surge? - Page 3

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ira
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#21: Post by ira »

As someone else pointed out, that meter reading of the 114 is probably high because those meters just don't respond that fast. I would leave the meter connected and chart the voltage every minute from cold machine off till ready to brew and let us know what you see. It will probably stay constant over long periods of that and we don't need that information, just all the different voltages you record.

Nunas
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#22: Post by Nunas »

amamet wrote:,snip.That line, when I tested the machine there cycled from @ 123 to 118 v. not as bad but still noticeable when the light on the back of the machine pulsed
Hmm. That's not good. Since your machine is a prosumer HX, it only has one heater, which is probably in the vicinity of 1200 to 1400 Watts. Such a load should cause an IR drop of only a volt or two, except in old houses with ancient wiring. A deeper drop is indicative of a wiring fault in the home. Since you're getting this on multiple circuits, this suggests a problem in the panel. You may also have additional circuit-specific faults, since you are seeing different results on different circuits; such faults often due to poor connections in daisy-chained outlets. I suggest you test again using a different load, to eliminate the remote possibility that it's the espresso machine. Most electric kettles draw 1500 to 1600-Watt, and most electric irons draw about 1700-Watt. I suggest you measure the voltage drop using one of these. They are a pure resistance device with no computers, PIDs or anything else. If you get large IR drops like you've been seeing with your espresso machine, then you need an electrician to look at your wiring. By any chance, does your home have aluminum wiring?

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cafeIKE
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#23: Post by cafeIKE »

Nunas wrote:Another quick test of the machine would be to plug it into a 15-amp circuit, turn it on from cold, and see what happens. Most prosumer espresso machines are made to run on a 15-amp circuit without overloading it. If there's something inside the machine that is drawing significantly more current (which I still say is unlikely), then after a short time you'll pop a 15-amp breaker, whereas the 20-amp one you normally use may not trip.
Depends on the breaker. Some residential ones will carry 50% over current for 10 minutes or plenty of time for the PID to begin control.

amamet (original poster)
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#24: Post by amamet (original poster) »

Using one of those "kill-a-watt" devices, I plugged my heat gun (12a) into it and into the same outlet I use my espresso maker in. Voltage drops to 113.9v. Does that prove it's my wiring not the Bezzera? If my wiring were fine, given the PID cycling on and off of the heater, would I still see the light pulse and hear the motor change speed?

ira
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#25: Post by ira »

If you plug it into another outlet somewhere else and you get the same result, that would indicate the issue is at least at the panel and possibly the meter or even earlier. In that case, you have everything you need to figure it out if you're comfortable with the panel open.

Pressino
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#26: Post by Pressino »

Yeah, that's an abnormally large voltage drop at the outlet. I wonder if that "20 amp" circuit is wired with 14 gauge copper (or worse yet 14g aluminum wire)?

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Jeff
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#27: Post by Jeff »

Wiring practices, such as back-stab outlets and poor wire-nut installation, would be my guess. Aluminum wiring is another possibility. Calling in a qualified electrician would be my recommendation if you have any questions.

Nunas
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#28: Post by Nunas »

amamet wrote:<snip>If my wiring were fine, given the PID cycling on and off of the heater, would I still see the light pulse and hear the motor change speed?
There will always be some IR drop and recovery when a heavy load is switched on and off. However, if it is only a volt or two, the pulsations should be barely noticeable. I suggest that your major concern should be for the house wiring. Any time there is an IR drop of significance, there will be local heating, often in a bad joint. You've probably seen this on some of the posts here on H-B, where a loose connection to a heater ends up melting the plastic on the wires and sometimes heats the connector so much that it anneals the wire and, in extreme cases, the wire breaks at the connection. It's kind of China Syndrome, whereby once the defect starts heating, things get progressively worse. You don't want this sort of thing happening inside the walls of your house walls. You might have a look here for a brief summary, https://www.hunker.com/12499848/how-to- ... -an-outlet

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cafeIKE
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#29: Post by cafeIKE »

Jeff wrote:Calling in a qualified electrician would be my recommendation if you have any questions.
'Qualified electrician'? By whose standards?
Based on the 4 houses we've owned and the uncounted ones I've fixed, 'qualified' needs qualification.

If you can find one who wires recording studios or data centers or hospitals or other high quality installations, pay the extra money.
An old school Navy electrical chief is a pretty safe bet.

amamet (original poster)
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#30: Post by amamet (original poster) »

I'm going to try to bring the machine to a neighbors house and see what happens. Their house was built in the 60's too, so...