Apparently "high purity" Teflon tubing does not cause contamination of PFAS test samples - see page 104 https://www.concawe.eu/wp-content/uploa ... t_16-8.pdf. But I have no idea whether the Teflon tubing used in every espresso machine meets that standard.

I've also learned (after purchase, unfortunately) that the Lelit Elizabeth contains PFAS tubing throughout the internal workings, not just in the steam wand. Does anyone know of an espresso manufacturer that does not use Teflon tubing other than Ascaso?

Polytetrafluoroethylene (PTFE) tubing is safe for use in food applications. Teflon is just a DuPont trade name for their PTFE. PTFE is used in the pharmaceutical industry and in implantable medical devices and is extremely safe. It has exceedingly low extractables.
The report you provided mentions PFOA in PTFE but this substance was banned over ten years ago and is no longer used in the production of PTFE. PTFE is entirely safe and is used in some of the most demanding applications in injectable drug manufacturing because of its safety profile.

Plenty of manufacturers will use copper lines with brass fittings for hot piping. However, you will have to check with each manufacturer as what is in their machines can change at any time. This includes Ascaso, as I just looked at their website and noticed that they show the use of copper lines in machines that were previously advertised as 100% stainless steel.

Scott123 wrote:Polytetrafluoroethylene (PTFE) tubing is safe for use in food applications. Teflon is just a DuPont trade name for their PTFE. PTFE is used in the pharmaceutical industry and in implantable medical devices and is extremely safe. It has exceedingly low extractables.
The report you provided mentions PFOA in PTFE but this substance was banned over ten years ago and is no longer used in the production of PTFE. PTFE is entirely safe and is used in some of the most demanding applications in injectable drug manufacturing because of its safety profile.

I want to believe this is true, but if so, why does every PFAS sampling guide warn against use of PTFE tubing to avoid contamination of the sample? See also the leeching experiment done here - https://www.epoc.org/resources/Document ... 8_2019.pdf

baldheadracing wrote:Plenty of manufacturers will use copper lines with brass fittings for hot piping. However, you will have to check with each manufacturer as what is in their machines can change at any time. This includes Ascaso, as I just looked at their website and noticed that they show the use of copper lines in machines that were previously advertised as 100% stainless steel.

Any suggestions on manufacturers to look into? From what I've seen every sub-$5000 machine relies on PTFE tubing.

You have to check yourself. My Rancilio Silvia doesn't have any PTFE. Does that mean that the Silvia that you buy won't have a parts revision to substitute in a PTFE line carrying hot water? There's no way of knowing, unless you talk to Rancilio, the manufacturer.

In the 60s we had Dr. Strangelove or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb

If one is going to worry about infinitessimally small, non-hazardous contaminant levels, perhaps it might be better to forego coffee altogether. In 2018, California wanted coffee label a carcinogen.

Give up coffee and drink only water that you manufacture from H & O combustion.

Why is it whenever anyone posts anything on HB about the health concerns of toxic chemicals leaching into your coffee, the snark machine immediately gets rolling and you'll hear responses like give up coffee altogether? Utter nonsense. Those concerns about PTFE and PFOA are completely legitimate as numerous academic studies show, and not comparable to Dr. Strangelove's admittedly hilarious nut General Ripper. If you're worried and anyone who looks into this should be, buy a manual espresso machine that is all steel, or, at least, metal--EspressoForge, Aram, Robot, etc. There is no "food-safe" plastic no matter what the engineers claim. BPA-free stuff like Tritan has been shown to be no better than regular BPA, maybe worse. And teflon is a killer.

I think unfortunately we're at a place in modern living where avoiding hazardous chemicals is nearly impossible to do on your own, and sadly the USA does a terrible job of protecting its people at the regulatory level. To comfort themselves, some people seem to prefer ignoring the risk and pretending it doesn't exist. I don't blame them, but if I can avoid adding to my risk of cancer, I'd like to do so.

Rather than pull out the teflon tube there are also SS steam wands available which swap on -- if you prefer one less potential source of lead.