Thanks everyone for all the excellent advice. I emailed the seller and I'm waiting to hear back from him so I can help him package it properly. I think what I'll tell him is to turn the machine on until it is up to temp, make sure the reservoir is empty, run the pump until water stops coming out of the brew group, then open the hot water valve until no more water comes out, then open the steam valve until steam stops coming out. Then let it cool down, put it in two plastic bags, wrap with several layers of bubble wrap, put it in the box with peanuts, put the small box in a bigger one full of peanuts too, and duct tape it all around with reinforced tape. Sound good? And the only loose parts I see are the portafilters, is it ok to wrap those up and put them in the space between the group and the drip tray as shown in the pic, but make sure they are secured of course?
Matt - did you sell the Expobar? If you don't mind could you take pics while you're packing it, if you haven't finished yet.. that would be awesome.

Kristi wrote:When the UPS guy was bringing them up, the grinder box fell off the cart and actually bounced, it was so well packed. No damage to either unit from shipping. But again it was due to overkill packing, AND, UPS being kind.

Fantastic packing job!

It's perhaps obvious, but there's also a big difference between the packing demands among the machines mentioned in this thread. A 25 pound Silvia will escape harm more easily than a 45+ pound semi-commercial. And for the really big boys, a mini pallet is worth the extra money. That's how Chris' shipped the Elektra A3:

oofnik wrote:Sound good?

Isn't Nebraska well below freezing this time of year? I would prefer the machine's boiler be as close to empty as possible, not just purged via the water tap by steam pressure. Check if there's a boiler drain plug.

I'll ask him to look for one. It's very difficult to give specific instructions about how to do something with a machine you're not familiar with to a person who's even less familiar with it.. I wish he'd email me back!

espressme wrote:Thou speaketh truth! Some folks swear by JedEx. A reminder also that the Upshipper's Store, if used as a safe drop for your package, charges a goodly amount for the service! It is best to have a local business friend take the package for you.

The point, though, was that introducing a third party into it also can add complications. I've read or been told more than once that the best place to have shipped out from if you have to claim insurance is from a UPS customer service counter (NOT a UPS Store...two different things).

For ground shipping though I do prefer FedEx. Their ground service has typically been 25 to 30% cheaper than UPS ground and it's usually as fast or faster for me.

bc

Well, I have an update. Some good news and some bad news.
The good news is, the machine works! The bad news, well... two parts. One, it's filthy, two, it arrived in more parts and pieces than I think it was intended to be.
Apparently the seller completely ignored everything I discussed with him about packing. He chose to place the machine in a big, thin-walled cardboard box, toss in the portafilters somewhere, insert a few crumpled up sheets of packing paper, and send it off. No bubble wrap, no secured anything, big open spaces.. What the hell was this guy thinking!! I am very upset with this.

So now, I've got the working innards of a Wega Mininova sitting on a bent steel frame and a busted up, irreparable top. Wonderful. Oh, and I removed the crusty, hardened remains of the old head gasket and screen. I needed a drill, some wood screws, a screwdriver, and a pair of pliers. Check it out.

And the bent frame:


I'll get to work on disassembly this weekend. I'll strip it to the frame and try to bend it back out. And I'll also have a little chat with the seller.

Hi Guy,
I hope you have the packaging! and photos.

Save all your emails from and to the seller.

You may still stiff him for $100 for the UPS claim. That is normal insurance.

• 1st Text message the "gentlefolk" and say the thing was bashed in shipping and what would they wish to do about it.
  
  Then work with the person and keep all of the emails on the *bay server ( Messages).
  
  Then if push comes to crud, you have the *bay / Haypal handle to jerk the jerk,

I was able to negotiate with a seller and got most of the money back and kept the machine. Cost more to ship back than they could get out of a resale

Good luck
Richard

another_jim wrote:Mummy wrap the machine and any loose parts in thin bubble wrap, about 1.5 inchs in depth, so it'll withstand getting stabbed by any sharp implements, then double box with lots of beads in each box so it can withstand getting dropped out of the back of the truck several times. That should, with a few prayers thrown in, and barring any great new innovations in package handling, UPS proof it.

I really was going to post this, before I saw the end result of the sellers shipping.

I don't understand UPS proof Jim. If your local carriers are anything like ours in the UK, then nothing can be "courier" proofed. The better the packaging the bigger the challenge

On a more serious note though with the larger machines and bigger boilers, the sheer internal mass can mean that even when they are packed really well, the boiler itself can move internally! (happened with some heavy machines a while back, we estimated a 3 metre drop). In the case of this particular machine, it looks like really bad luck (carelessness) that it arrived the way it did, BUT my suspicious and devious mind does ponder one small point! Was the machine damaged in the first place and the seller then inadequately packed hoping that more damage would result and disguise the existing damage. In the e-bay picture you posted, it might be the angle it was taken at, but it looks twisted to me in that shot. The left side shows a largish gap where the front panel joins the side panel and the top left of the machine looks low.

Ahh...i'm just suspicious.

In either case the item looks as if it might be significantly "not as described" in e-bay terms, so a paypal payment reversal is in order.

DigMe wrote:Not always!

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1759,1932143,00.asp

bc

UPS once broke my computer on a cross country move. I don't mean an electronic break, I mean a physical - the case and motherboard were shattered. I have no idea how they managed that. I had no idea it was possible.

They took the machine for an insurance valuation, and were supposed to return it within two days. After 4 days I got in a fight with customer service. After 2 weeks they admitted they lost it during valuation, and would send me a full insurance claim. A week later, nothing. Thats when I got a friend of the family - a lawyer - involved.

One phonecall + a letterhead faxt later, and they overnight me a check. The next day they brilliantly call and say "oh we found it. but we value it at $400 damage, not $800. don't cash that check. we should have the broken computer to you tomorrow."

I politely tell them great -- but we resolved the situation and I'm cashing the $800 right now. I expect to have the computer in my possession the next day so i can pull my files off it. once i do that and blank the drive they can have the machine. we argue, i call my lawyer. she has me call back and just say "if i don't see the computer the next day, i'll file charges for data theft (the valuation was for the computer hardware, not software)." and "I'm not talking to customer service anymore. i want someone in the legal department." I had the machine the next day with a formal apology.

I've been weary of UPS ever since. Though i tried fedex ground a few years later, and had an even worse experience: they delivered a $1200 computer to the same street address / different zipcode + town 10miles away. The shipper was great and sent a replacement, as miraculously they couldn't seem to find whomever signed for the package. Then the driver delivered the replacement computer... to the same place. I wasn't happy with that, neither was the shipper , who ended making $2400 in claims. How much do you want to bet someone at Fedex got two shiny new computers as a bonus ? I finally got a third computer on my doorstep the next day via UPS overnight -- 2 weeks after ordering it. annoying.

I am a fairly trusting person, but DaveC's comments had me going back to look at the original picture. Not knowing if there were other pictures, in that original picture the machine does in fact look a bit distorted. It is hard to tell if it is a optical illusion or just perspective, or if in fact something is not quite right. Good luck with getting things set straight.

If worse comes to worse, carpe diem,.... straighten the frame and look into making a custom shell (the original was a bit lacking in the looks department anyhow).

What a nightmare...if you paid with paypal, you should start your claim now.