Non E61 group head machines. Current Prosumer pump semi-automatic

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Postby redbone » Jan 09, 2019, 11:45 am

Like to build a list of prosumer pump semi-automatic non E61 group head machines for easy reference that are either (HX) or (DB). Many if not all of these are saturated groups. Comments, additions and corrections welcome. The almost 60 year old E61 has its merits and weaknesses. There is a trend in higher end small commercial / prosumer machines to be moving away from the E61 to their own fully saturated enclosed group head design.

Slayer Espresso (DB)
Bezzera BZ10P (HX)
Bezzera Duo Top (DB)
Bezzera Matrix Top (DB)
Profitec Pro 300 (DB)
La Spaziale Vivaldi (DB)
La Marzocco GS/3 (DB)
Rocket R Nine One (DB)
Synesso single group (DB)
Between order and chaos there is espresso.
Semper discens.

LMWDP #549


Postby DeGaulle » Jan 09, 2019, 12:31 pm

You could add the NS Oscar (II) and NS Musica, both HX. Although I think they do have a TS brew group, it's just not an E61.

As for Bezzera, they have a few more models that all use the heated group, namely
BZ07, BZ13, BZ16 (all HX)

I think the BZ16 is like a Mitica housing and boiler with a heated group, PID and volumetrics.


Postby daveR1 » Jan 09, 2019, 8:58 pm

I would include the La Spaziale Dream, which to me seems to be the more advanced version of the Vivaldi with the built in timers, multiple user profiles & touchscreen with upgradeable firmware.

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Postby Jake_G » Jan 09, 2019, 9:12 pm

You've got your Cimbali, CMA (Astoria, Rio), Rancilio, and LSM to name a large handful of other machines from a few manufacturers.

Cimbali, CMA and Rancilio all offer a boiler-mounted group with a dead-headed HX attached. LSM used to offer a similar setup where the group was mounted directly to the HX by way of the lever group mounting flange. LSM, Rancilio and CMA all offer TS HX groups, with CMA having the largest option of different setups.

Rancilio now offers the fancy temperature profiling group in the Xcelcius models.

I'm pretty sure it's just a fancy PID Silvia boiler sitting above each group head, but what do I know? :P


- Jake


Postby RikC » Jan 10, 2019, 1:12 am

The Linea Mini. Depending how you look at it it's either a hx or a db: pre- heated water is fed trough a hx in the steam boiler to a saturated group with pid controlled heating elements.

Also, in this sense, if the profitec 300 is included, the Breville DB machines as already mentioned by DeGaulle.

And lets not forget the Dalla Corte Mini and Mina.

And off-course the radical Victoria Arduino Theresia, which technically might even be seen as a triple boiler machine. And I think also their very classicaly styled Venus family.

And also VA's sister brand Nouva Simonelli then with the Musica and Oscar II.

If Bezzera machines with their actively heated groups which rely on thermal mass of the group head instead of saturation but do not use a thermosyphon like E-61 are mentioned here then the Xenia espresso machine should also be mentioned, even though it's only marketed in Germany at the moment:

And shouldn't Decent machines be mentioned here?

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Postby another_jim » Jan 10, 2019, 1:46 am

Commercial Elektra machines use a TS group that looks like an E61, but is actually a modified Brasilia. The Elektra Semi is the same group mechanically, bolted to the boiler. These are not particular temperature stable, but make excellent shots. However, since they are not DBs and don't have long preinfusions, they are not great for 3rd wave, ultra-light roasts.
Jim Schulman