New Preinfusion for La Marzocco Linea Mini R - Page 4

Need help with equipment usage or want to share your latest discovery?
BaristaBob
Posts: 1873
Joined: 6 years ago

#31: Post by BaristaBob »

Laurintzon wrote:Hi, I've been following the discussion and finally decided to post. I'm sorry if this is a little off topic. I'm upgrading my equipment and I've narrowed it down to GS3 MP or the new Linea Mini R (used to be Micra). I would like to have full manual profiling / pressure profiling that GS3 MP offers.

However, now the new 2-way valve of Linea Mini R offers the capability of a blooming shot, which is not possible with GS3. Am I correct? Would you say that Linea Mini R is superior in this sense? In addition, with line pressure pre-infusion and more easily adjustable pressure on top (still no manual profiling, however) makes Linea Mini R rather a capable machine. E.g. light roasts should be quite fine with Linea Mini R. Hence, I also think that the gap between Linea Mini and GS3 MP narrowed. Do you guys agree?
Funny, but in my year long search for a new machine, I've settled on the same machines as you...really excited about the Linea Mini R. No doubt about it, the GS3 is a great machine, however, everything depends on you (hence the MP for manual paddle). I was hoping to find a machine with just a little bit of automation, and one that was not an e61 group. The choices are limited as you have discovered. I've been round and round with LM USA about the capabilities or lack of them on the GS3 AV when using the reservoir. Now enter the LMLM R. I'm hoping the now functional prebrew allows the Mini to reach further back in roast levels, certainly it should, though probably not to the same level as a true preinfusion.

One extra note here, when I asked La Marzocco about adding the two solenoid system to the GS3 AV, their answer was, "we could, but the GS3 AV will be radically updated!" They supplied no time frame! :(
Bob "hello darkness my old friend..I've come to drink you once again"

Ging3rBen
Posts: 26
Joined: 3 months ago

#32: Post by Ging3rBen replying to BaristaBob »

Definitely feels like the GS/3 update is in the works. It will likely be priced well above the mini r though so might not be a comparison for some buyers. Mini R looks good to me, hopefully going to LM London showroom soon to have a play

Laurintzon
Posts: 16
Joined: 2 months ago

#33: Post by Laurintzon »

Jake_G wrote:Since the GS3 MP has the 3-way valve mechanically connected to the paddle, there is indeed no way to do a blooming shot on it in its current configuration. I'm not sure this makes the Linea Mini R superior. But it does have blooming capability where the GS3 does not.

The 1987 Honda Accord came with an automatic transmission, the E30 BMW M3 did not. Was the accord then superior? If you wanted an automatic transmission, then I suppose so.
Thank you for your comments! I meant in blooming shot feature Linea Mini is superior as GS3 doesn't have that. But it's another question and topic how important this feature is. Feels like, though, blooming is increasingly used method. Overall, GS3 is still a next level machine.

Haha good comparison!

Laurintzon
Posts: 16
Joined: 2 months ago

#34: Post by Laurintzon »

BaristaBob wrote:Funny, but in my year long search for a new machine, I've settled on the same machines as you...really excited about the Linea Mini R. No doubt about it, the GS3 is a great machine, however, everything depends on you (hence the MP for manual paddle). I was hoping to find a machine with just a little bit of automation, and one that was not an e61 group. The choices are limited as you have discovered. I've been round and round with LM USA about the capabilities or lack of them on the GS3 AV when using the reservoir. Now enter the LMLM R. I'm hoping the now functional prebrew allows the Mini to reach further back in roast levels, certainly it should, though probably not to the same level as a true preinfusion.

One extra note here, when I asked La Marzocco about adding the two solenoid system to the GS3 AV, their answer was, "we could, but the GS3 AV will be radically updated!" They supplied no time frame! :(
Great to hear from like minded people! From the reservoir blooming (or the enhanced pre-brew) definitely adds to the previous model. And if plumbed in, you have the line pressure pre-infusion, which has remained the same as the previous model, I believe. So I think the new 2-way valve doesn't bring anything new here?

Yeah feels like the new GS3 is on the way but we just don't know when; do we talk months or years, we don't know. I might settle with Linea Mini R, since I'm still relatively unexperienced, and later update to the new GS3 (or whatever it will be). So for me, Linea Mini R was a meaningful update.

User avatar
Jake_G (original poster)
Team HB
Posts: 4319
Joined: 6 years ago

#35: Post by Jake_G (original poster) »

Laurintzon wrote:And if plumbed in, you have the line pressure pre-infusion, which has remained the same as the previous model, I believe. So I think the new 2-way valve doesn't bring anything new here?
OG Mini, Micra and GS3 AV have only one phase for line-pressure preinfusion. You can apply line pressure, and then you turn the pump on.

The Mini R gives you a two-stage preinfusion option, where you can apply line-pressure, and then close the 2-way valve, allowing the puck to bloom. This is indeed new for plumbed machines in general.

That said, the lack of this feature does not preclude the OG Mini, Micra, nor the GS3 AV/MP from making excellent shots of light-roasted espresso.
LMWDP #704

Laurintzon
Posts: 16
Joined: 2 months ago

#36: Post by Laurintzon replying to Jake_G »

Thank you for clarifying this, this is good news. At least for me, it is still difficult to say whether the "blooming preinfusion" is just a new trick you try from time to time or whether it becomes your standard way of preinfusion. Of course the parameters used (on-off times) affect the result too.

But you're right, this is not an ultimate feature. That said, feels like that at least GS3 would get this at some point.

User avatar
Jeff
Team HB
Posts: 6880
Joined: 19 years ago

#37: Post by Jeff »

Based on experience with other machines, including the Micra, with some medium and primarily light-roast coffees, I found a few things:

Without line pressure, using the residual pressure from the heat of the boiler was fair at best. I'm not sure that the puck was ever fully saturated with systems like this. I have not used the steam pressure driven system of the Lelit Elizabeth.

Pump-driven approaches that open the three-way valve often made things worse.

For many light roast coffees, fully saturating the puck seems to have significant advantages over moving quickly to high-pressure extraction. I haven't explored enough of medium roast coffees to be certain of similar value. However, it seems reasonable that quickly and evenly saturating the puck has advantages across the range of roast levels.

It seems to me that this new system has potential to be a significant improvement in the cup for those pulling shots from coffees that are harder to extract than traditional espresso blends and roasts.

joiglan
Posts: 48
Joined: 5 years ago

#38: Post by joiglan »

Jake_G wrote:Since the GS3 MP has the 3-way valve mechanically connected to the paddle, there is indeed no way to do a blooming shot on it in its current configuration. I'm not sure this makes the Linea Mini R superior. But it does have blooming capability where the GS3 does not.
In the sense that the 'blooming' on Mini R would be something like say 3bar preinfuse, then into the pause phase which that residual held pressure on top the coffee is held and starts to dissipate via the coffee bed and, you'd imagine decline/slope downwards in pressure, surely this could be achieved with the MP hitting 3 bar and then ramping slowly downwards below 3bar? I guess you'd probably need a measured profile from the Mini R and try to replicate it on the MP to exact it.

Would the pressure completely dissipate on Mini R if the bloom is long enough?

hao
Supporter
Posts: 17
Joined: 3 years ago

#39: Post by hao »

Laurintzon wrote:Hi, I've been following the discussion and finally decided to post. I'm sorry if this is a little off topic. I'm upgrading my equipment and I've narrowed it down to GS3 MP or the new Linea Mini R (used to be Micra). I would like to have full manual profiling / pressure profiling that GS3 MP offers.

However, now the new 2-way valve of Linea Mini R offers the capability of a blooming shot, which is not possible with GS3. Am I correct? Would you say that Linea Mini R is superior in this sense? In addition, with line pressure pre-infusion and more easily adjustable pressure on top (still no manual profiling, however) makes Linea Mini R rather a capable machine. E.g. light roasts should be quite fine with Linea Mini R. Hence, I also think that the gap between Linea Mini and GS3 MP narrowed. Do you guys agree?
Completely agree that the Linea Mini and GS3 MP gap is narrowed. I recently got a Linea Mini (the original version) after having sold my Decent DE1. Nothing wrong mechanically or espresso-wise with the Decent - I just wanted something with a much more manual feel and (in my opinion) better aesthetics. I ordered Rick Bond's EMP Mod and it should be arriving soon. I only make espresso with very light roasted beans, and so far I have been pleasantly surprised by the shots I've been getting with the stock (non-plumbed, no preinfusion) configuration! All I did was lower the pressure to 6 bar. On the other hand, I've only really been pulling turbo shots, which by design are more forgiving. If you're looking to do Slayer style shots, you'd certainly need a slow preinfusion, which plumbing in the machine would give you.

I briefly considered the GS3 MP, especially since a new Linea Mini with an EMP mod is around the same price as the GS3. For me, it came down to 1) worse aesthetics (personal opinion of course!); 2) longer heat up time; and 3) the pressure profiling just dumps the unused water into the drip tray. For a long preinfusion this can be double or triple the total shot volume, all wasted! Furthermore, I've heard the paddle isn't the most intuitive to use.

Note that the EMP mod in its current state is unlikely to be compatible with the new Linea Mini as the internals have changed. If you really wanted this mod with the new Linea Mini, it'd probably be worth it to reach out to Rick and ask him if he plans to adjust his mod to work for the new version.

joiglan
Posts: 48
Joined: 5 years ago

#40: Post by joiglan »

hao wrote:Completely agree that the Linea Mini and GS3 MP gap is narrowed.
I get that in the sense that one has a feature the other doesn't, but I'm not sure it has narrowed things awfully - the GS/3 is a fully profiling machine. I see it may have narrowed the decision for a lot potential buyers seeing there's an extra string to the bow of the Mini in it's preinfusion meaning the cost and gap to the GS/3 is really obtaining the flow control (aside saturated group/steam power/sheer grunt)