New La Marzocco Linea Mini, total change in espresso flavor

Need help with equipment usage or want to share your latest discovery?
cronus10

Postby cronus10 » Mar 11, 2019, 11:27 am

My new Linea Mini just arrive last week - it's a pretty exciting upgrade from my PID'd Silvia. I also upgraded my grinder from a Mazzer Mini Electronic to a Eureka Atom 75 at the same time. I've been brewing Klatch's Golden Bean espresso (as a latte) for quite awhile, and enjoyed the fruit/berry forward flavor. However, that flavor is completely gone on the Linea Mini since I switched over.

This past weekend I went back to my old grinder, and the flavor was still a drastic change from the way it was on the Silvia, so I'm assuming the change is primarily related to the Linea Mini. I still enjoy the roast on the Linea Mini, I think it's a lot more balanced, but I do miss that berry/fruit punch it used to have.

Has anyone else experienced something similar? Any good suggestions to help get it back a little bit with the LMLM? I've been thinking of going back to some of my other coffees I've used in the last to see how they've changed.

Cheers,

-- Matt

dsblv

Postby dsblv » Mar 11, 2019, 11:51 am

Shot flavor is very dependent upon grind setting, amount of coffee in the basket and brew temperature. Adjusting those parameters will change the flavors you're experiencing with the Mini.

tamadrummer

Postby tamadrummer » Mar 11, 2019, 12:34 pm

congrats! i just received my linea mini last week and upgrading from a non pid silvia too. i didn't taste anything eye popping different.

perhaps the 1 second preinfusion is altering the taste too?

RyanJE

Postby RyanJE » Mar 11, 2019, 12:49 pm

What were your old brew parameters on the Silvia for this coffee? You might need to brew coarser and faster since the ramp up on a rotary pump is way faster than a vibe pump. That also aligns with the tastes you are describing. It sounds like the mini/atom is extracting higher as you say everything is more "balanced" which could also be trending toward muddiness that could occur in higher extraction.

The "fruity" you are describing typically comes from lower extraction at the expense of some sweetness and balance. Also, probably ( I say probably because I don't own your past or current gear) your mini favored lower extractions to taste better as compared to your 75MM burrs in the atom. You could also play with you ratio as higher quality grinders can do better with longer shots and still keep the strength and extraction up.
I drink two shots before I drink two shots, then I drink two more....

cronus10

Postby cronus10 » Mar 11, 2019, 1:10 pm

RyanJE wrote:What were your old brew parameters on the Silvia for this coffee? You might need to brew coarser and faster since the ramp up on a rotary pump is way faster than a vibe pump. That also aligns with the tastes you are describing. It sounds like the mini/atom is extracting higher as you say everything is more "balanced" which could also be trending toward muddiness that could occur in higher extraction.

The "fruity" you are describing typically comes from lower extraction at the expense of some sweetness and balance. Also, probably ( I say probably because I don't own your past or current gear) your mini favored lower extractions to taste better as compared to your 75MM burrs in the atom. You could also play with you ratio as higher quality grinders can do better with longer shots and still keep the strength and extraction up.


On the Silvia I believe I was pulling shots in around 25 - 27 seconds, just under 2oz out. I did need to loosen my grind up a little bit on the LMLM as you mentioned. I was trying for the same timing on the LMLM, but I'll play around with trying some longer pulls to see how it reacts. I've tried to keep the brew temperature about the same.

ben8jam

Postby ben8jam » replying to cronus10 » Mar 11, 2019, 2:46 pm

Are you using the same baskets? Dose and grind will change between a LaM basket and a Silvia basket.

The PID on the Silvia is all based on an offset which you have to set, so it's kinda of up in air what actual puck temp is. So it's possible your temps are different between the two machines? The mini should be set at factory, but when my mini arrived I was getting really harsh flavors. Turns out the temp sticker wasn't attached properly and it was WAY too high. Like 8 degrees... I used a Javalin to get it close enough at first just measuring at the screen, and eventually bought a SCACE to get it dead on. It's an odd thing to have happened... but the machine is absolutely dead on in temp on every pull so I looked past it :)

RyanJE

Postby RyanJE » Mar 11, 2019, 3:10 pm

cronus10 wrote:On the Silvia I believe I was pulling shots in around 25 - 27 seconds, just under 2oz out. I did need to loosen my grind up a little bit on the LMLM as you mentioned. I was trying for the same timing on the LMLM, but I'll play around with trying some longer pulls to see how it reacts. I've tried to keep the brew temperature about the same.


By longer I meant more water, not more time. In fact, you need less time to move back toward fruity. First start with a faster flowing shot so 20-25.

Also, you should switch to focusing on your brews by weight rather than ounces.
I drink two shots before I drink two shots, then I drink two more....

cronus10

Postby cronus10 » Mar 11, 2019, 3:11 pm

ben8jam wrote:Are you using the same baskets? Dose and grind will change between a LaM basket and a Silvia basket.

The PID on the Silvia is all based on an offset which you have to set, so it's kinda of up in air what actual puck temp is. So it's possible your temps are different between the two machines? The mini should be set at factory, but when my mini arrived I was getting really harsh flavors. Turns out the temp sticker wasn't attached properly and it was WAY too high. Like 8 degrees... I used a Javalin to get it close enough at first just measuring at the screen, and eventually bought a SCACE to get it dead on. It's an odd thing to have happened... but the machine is absolutely dead on in temp on every pull so I looked past it :)


Same 18g VST basket in both cases. You're right, the PID'd silvia is based on a guessed temperature difference between the boiler and brew head temperatures (based on Auber's measurements). So, I could try playing with the temperature to see where that goes.

cronus10

Postby cronus10 » Mar 11, 2019, 3:13 pm

RyanJE wrote:By longer I meant more water, not more time. In fact, you need less time to move back toward fruity. First start with a faster flowing shot so 20-25.

Also, you should switch to focusing on your brews by weight rather than ounces.


Sounds good. I'll play around with it to see what happens. Thanks Ryan.

linuxAndJavaScript

Postby linuxAndJavaScript » Mar 15, 2019, 10:22 pm

cronus10 wrote:, but I do miss that berry/fruit punch it used to have.


I have a Silvia and I do enjoy the fruity punch it has. I was thinking of upgrading to a Mini some day but I would be disappointed if I would lose that fruity punch I enjoy so much on the Silvia.

Curious, have you resolved this issue or still working on it?