Maybe steam boilers just don't make dry steam, but does it matter?

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Mike-R
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#1: Post by Mike-R »

I'm not trying to be provocative with the title, so please don't take it that way. I don't spend much time in online forums until recently, if this has already been discussed ad nauseam then just let me know. With that out of the way...

While trying to resolve the slight spitting of water coming from the steam tip on my new Synchronika, I am now coming to the conclusion that it might just be normal for steam boilers to spit water slightly. This is consistent with what I have seen when watching YouTube videos of other prosumer machines. For example, see this video demonstrating the steam on the Profitec Pro 500. Start the video at 1:30 and watch closely where the steam exits the tip. It continues to slightly spit water for the entire 5 minute duration of the steaming test.
Here's another video of the ECM Synchronika, which is the same machine that I have. Watch closely where the steam exits the tip to see the slight spitting.
I would love to be proved wrong if anyone wants to show a video of their machine that doesn't do this.

In my opinion, the spitting must be caused by droplet carryover from the boiler. I imagine that this might not happen in cafe machines with their large boilers which have more headspace (for droplet separation) and less rigorous boiling (because more water in the boiler). Any cafe baristas out there that can confirm?

Some might say water is from condensation due to heat losses in the tubing and wand, but it would have to be an awful lot of heat losses to overcome the flashing as the pressure drops. Maybe in another post I'll show this on a pressure-enthalpy diagram.

I think slight spitting is just a reality of boilers in prosumer home machines. Sure, there are other design features that could reduce carryover while not increasing the boiler size (e.g., demister pad or superheater), but they aren't ideal for a prosumer home machine so I don't expect manufacturers to be offering these any time soon.

While this spitting isn't ideal, perhaps it doesn't make that much difference in practice. I've seen videos of talented cafe baristas using prosumer machines at home to make incredible microfoam. So even if the spitting isn't ideal, any disadvantage seems to be trumped by technique.

Anyway, I would be interested in opinions or thoughts. Would love to be proved wrong, especially if it results in more dry steam from my machine.

ira
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#2: Post by ira »

You get more wet steam if the water level is high or the boiler temperature is low. Can you check to see if the water level is to high? Especially if the steam is wetter than it was. Scale on the end of the probe could cause the water level to rise slowly over time.

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baldheadracing
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#3: Post by baldheadracing »

Some have noticed an improvement after removing the plastic sleeve inside a no-burn steam wand (to make it a burn-me steam wand).

Except for the Silvia, I don't remember any spitting on my machines, but I haven't been looking for spitting either.
-"Good quality brings happiness as you use it" - Nobuho Miya, Kamasada
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Mike-R (original poster)
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#4: Post by Mike-R (original poster) »

ira wrote:You get more wet steam if the water level is high or the boiler temperature is low. Can you check to see if the water level is to high? Especially if the steam is wetter than it was. Scale on the end of the probe could cause the water level to rise slowly over time.
It's always been wet. The steam temp/pressure is 132C/2.0bar. My Synchronika is brand new as of two months ago, so I don't think it's scale. However I am planning to pull my probe on the off chance it's broken or the wrong length. But as I explained in my post, I'm starting to believe that wet steam is normal even for prosumer machines.

Mike-R (original poster)
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#5: Post by Mike-R (original poster) »

baldheadracing wrote:Some have noticed an improvement after removing the plastic sleeve inside a no-burn steam wand (to make it a burn-me steam wand).
I heard mention this when I was discussing on a different forum, but while this might increase steaming power, I would be really surprised if this makes any difference in the spitting.
baldheadracing wrote:Except for the Silvia, I don't remember any spitting on my machines, but I haven't been looking for spitting either.

My theory is that most everyone has this minor spitting but never looked for it. If I'm right, I apologize in advance for pointing this out. :wink: Once you see it, you can't unsee it. :shock:

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baldheadracing
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#6: Post by baldheadracing »

Mike-R wrote:My theory is that most everyone has this minor spitting but never looked for it. If I'm right, I apologize in advance for pointing this out. :wink: Once you see it, you can't unsee it. :shock:
What am I looking for - the little spit at the very end?
-"Good quality brings happiness as you use it" - Nobuho Miya, Kamasada

Nunas
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#7: Post by Nunas »

I watched the videos. I had a go with my machine (4-hole/2-bar Synchronika). It all seems normal to me. I think you may be trying to find a solution for a problem that isn't there.

Bluenoser
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#8: Post by Bluenoser »

You are really interested in the amount of water added to the milk in order to get it to temperature.. Some spitting is normal. The teflon tube inside creates a bit more water than a metal tube, from my experience. You can measure the amount of water for steaming to determine if your steam is "wet" or "dry".. I think normal is about 10% water added to a pitcher of milk. I steam 200g of milk to temp and get 220g out. I'd say that is dryish steam. But weigh your milk before & after to determine how much water was added.

Always purge your wand for 2-5 seconds just before use to get it hot and to blast out a few drops of water that have condensed inside.

(the link in the next post is currently broken.. I have not read that discussion)

Pressino
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#9: Post by Pressino »

The question of "dry" versus "wet" steam has been discussed before, as well as various suggested "fixes" to reduce the amount of "wetness" in the steam coming out of steam wands. To get a handle on so-called "wet" steam you need to understand a bit of thermodynamics.

Back in July 2021 in the thread "Steam Questions" I wrote:

I've seen quite a few posts discussing how to get "drier steam." Basically the answer is to raise the temperature of the steam with which you froth the milk. It's a matter of thermodynamics, but this site explains it simply and straightforwardly:
http://www.wermac.org/steam/steam_part3 ... 0of%200.95 .

Mike-R (original poster)
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#10: Post by Mike-R (original poster) »

Nunas wrote:I watched the videos. I had a go with my machine (4-hole/2-bar Synchronika). It all seems normal to me. I think you may be trying to find a solution for a problem that isn't there.
The steam cloud hides it, so you have to look within a couple of millimeters of the tip. It's intermittent, about once every second or so. If you don't mind, please take another look at the videos with this in mind and let me know if you still don't see it.

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