TomC wrote:I need to possibly swap out my Cafelat silicone gasket I have in my Speedster for an OEM Kees one and see if I'm having an issue that can be traced to the Cafelat gasket (which I normally love), I'm getting some significant spritzing that seems to be coming from between the gasket and wall of the Matrix.

I was pulling two quick drinks before running out to work tonight and noticed the odd squirting, the water shooting out almost horizontally. I pulled the screen and gasket, checked them for any flaws or issues, re-installed them both and noticed the same behavior.

So far, the one thing I am noticing is that most coffees do need to be ground finer.

I do hope some other folks who've gotten their hands on the Matrix can share their impressions. I didn't pay attention to the "11" backers on the Indiegogo campaign until just the other day, so now I'm realizing that I might be talking into an echo chamber for a while until new units get out into the hands of others

That brings up an interesting thought... Normally there is no backpressure built up behind the shower screen but the "mesh" of the matrix does build up back pressure per almagordo's comments. So if the group gasket isn't a tight fit around the outside of the matrix, will it just leak outside the screen and down into the basket? (assuming the portafilter makes a good seal with the gasket and prevents it from coming out around the PF holder...) If enough water would get around it, could it lead to channeling around the periphery of the puck? Just thinking out loud...

I saw the indigogo and was going to jump in but never quite got around to it until it was closed...

In my career in industrial maintenance we used filters and exhaust mufflers for air solenoids made from sintered bronze, which is very similar to the construction of this screen. Over periods of time the pores would eventually clog up and sometimes cause rather disastrous effects on machines if something moved too slowly and was struck by another moving part. Being a food plant we used instrument quality air so that was not an issue. Anyway just be aware there may be troubles with flow rate if there is any build up in the sintering. If it does happen it will be a slow progression and you might not notice.

I'm assuming you can clean this as easily as other showerscreens by just holding it in a stove flame?

jrham12 wrote:That brings up an interesting thought... Normally there is no backpressure built up behind the shower screen but the "mesh" of the matrix does build up back pressure per almagordo's comments. So if the group gasket isn't a tight fit around the outside of the matrix, will it just leak outside the screen and down into the basket? (assuming the portafilter makes a good seal with the gasket and prevents it from coming out around the PF holder...) If enough water would get around it, could it lead to channeling around the periphery of the puck? Just thinking out loud...

I saw the indigogo and was going to jump in but never quite got around to it until it was closed...

Odd thing, is my impatience with fiddling with a hot group the last 3 days before work when I'm pulling quick and moving on, I haven't noticed any kind of channeling and the shots pull beautiful and even. So maybe when the basket itself is torqued into place, it eliminates that route. Just a guess. And for simple observation purposes, I've only noticed the side squirt half the time.

Bluecold wrote:I'm assuming you can clean this as easily as other showerscreens by just holding it in a stove flame?

Others may try different things, but if I'm removing it, it's going in very hot Joe Glo solution.

I've got one too. I didn't do any real comparisons.

Cleaned my machine. Pulled some shots with the old shower screen. Installed the new shower screen, pulled some shots with the new shower screen.

So far so good. No channeling. Always get a nice centred stream. Grind has to be slightly finer. Less harsh acidic notes. I'm still working on what it can do for lighter roasts.

Not very useful I know, but I'm mostly interested in if this is a step up from before. Yes it is. I won't be going back and it was a cheap upgrade.

to answer TomC and jrham discussion about the pressure build - yes, the shower creates an internal pressure. if the gasket is fractured or old, it might leak or even pop out when you're running water to clean. we've tested with several types of gaskets and had issues only with old hard gaskets. if it only sometimes happens, i'd assume the problem is the gasket and when it's very forcefully locked, there is no leak.
HOWEVER! this could also be a problem in the shower - if changing gaskets haven't solved the problem, please try turning the shower only (not the gasktet) by 180 degrees. if the spritz traveled the 180 degrees too, the problem is with the shower.
the way it's build, there's a PTFE seal pressed into the material to keep water from going around the plate. if that wasn't done properly it could leak from that point.
for the production model we're advancing to a PTFE layer which is adhered to the metal to prevent any chance of that happening.
please let me know if that test made any difference.

tp answer Bluecold and anyone else interested in cleaning - please do not put the shower in direct flame! it will burn the PTFE and make it unusable. Honestly, i didn't know people are doing this and it made me a bit sad to hear. putting most shower screens in direct flames will hard them. if it's nano coated, you're burning the coating. a flame would also warp the thin stainless plate and might change it's shape or the shape of the holes.
I'll add to the product use instruction a request not to burn it. Cleaning with any hard acid is good. cleaning inside the group using pully (and similar) every once in a while will keep it clean. taking it out and dropping it in acid is also good. I'd be happy to hear the results.
who ever has an ultrasonic cleaner at home, you're golden. that might be the best way to clean any shower....
you can read about it : https://www.variclean.eu/site/ultrasoni ... so-machine
and you can get cheap ultrasonic cleaners on amazon.

to answer bettysnephew - you're absolutely right. if the shower screen is left in the group, never cleaned and not taken out for a proper clean, it will definitely clog. it's much less sensitive than air filters because the channels are bigger. there are also about 50000 different water channels in the plate, quite a lot have to get clogged for it to be noticed. it's also used in water treatment systems for much more robust uses than espresso.
the machine is always creating a bit of stone. when that builds up and breaks off the boiler, it will reach the shower and get stuck there. it probably won't penetrate the shower because those stone flakes are usually too big.
in any case, some pully on a regular bases, out in the acid every 6 months (or less if you prefer).

to answer echidna - i'm glad to hear! the market price will be higher than the beta units, but still a cheap upgrade indeed. especially on machines that don't manage their pressure and flow very well.
one of my focuses are cheap upgrades to machines. this is something traditional espresso machines just don't care too much about because... it's cheap. a cheap solution doesn't bring in a lot of money.

i'm very happy to see there's this discussion! it's been very helpful in creating interest and thus far we've reached 800 pre-ordered units so production in Q1 is already guaranteed.


please keep the feedback coming. anything good, is nice to hear. anything bad, we'll make sure to fix for the production run.

also, I've updated the indiegogo backers and on the Decent forum about this thread so i hope they can also share their thoughts.

omri

this is a great idea. I just wonder if it makes more sense to have them offer it as a disc you place in the portafilter like the Bplus one and just get rid of the shower screen all together.

I've ordered sintered stainless filters before easy to find for cheap but yes you would need to take and clean on a regular basis I feel like to keep it in good shape so removing the screen or removing as disc? idk.

Exciting out of the box thinking with this product though on a major part of puck integrity. Price seems very reasonable almost too low for what it is. Just a disc could be had for cheaper.

So, update on the leaking around the screen.

i pulled the Cafelat gasket and went to put in one of my spare OEM ones, but found that it appears to have shrunk just enough that it doesn't fit well and just falls out. So I popped in a blue Cafelat ( original was red) gasket, and It leaks just as bad if not worse. It's just pissing water down the side of the screen. But it doesn't seem to have any affect once the portafilter is engaged, the pressure it applies seals everything and the water flows only thru the basket. Shots are still just fine. A thin film of Dow 111 didn't change anything.

So, time will tell, if it does good things to the extractions, my workflow will change, and I'll just flush the group with the portafilter engaged and then wipe out the wet portafilter before dosing. I already have to wipe out the portafilter and dry it thoroughly between shots anyway, because I knock the puck out and then rinse the whole thing in the sink. So this isn't necessarily a change in my routine, time-wise.

Interesting product. Any chance of such a screen for machines like a GS3 or the Decent?