Lelit Bianca User Experience - Page 5

Need help with equipment usage or want to share your latest discovery?
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another_jim
Team HB

Postby another_jim » Oct 26, 2018, 9:45 pm

Lelit discourages it, but you can push the steam higher. There is an over pressure valve and a cut out thermostat that will fire up at 2.2 bar. You can offset the displayed steam temperature by changing the programming parameter Es from 0 to a positive number. This will make the steeam boiler run hotter than displayed. If you add about 7C, you'll get up to 10 bar. Programming instructions are in the bench thread. (Lawyer inset: You didn't hear it here; if you have to take your machine apart to reset the over-pressure safeties, don't blame us)
Jim Schulman

Mesmer

Postby Mesmer » Oct 27, 2018, 4:20 pm

@another_jim, any news as to why your machine had the temperature issues reported at the start of this thread?

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another_jim
Team HB

Postby another_jim » Oct 27, 2018, 5:05 pm

The Bianca is delivered with an offset of 10C. That is the brew boiler is 10 degrees hotter than the displayed temperature. This works well for the review machine Dan has, but it wasn't right for me. I've reset mine to 14C, and I'm getting very accurate performance without any flushing. I'd be interested to hear what other owners have found.

I've been somewhat, although not closely, following the various adventures PIDers have had, from retrofitting PIDs to stock Lineas, Silvias, Domobars, and Renekas in the early aughts through the first DB E61 machines to the current crop of DBs featuring integrated, saturated, and thermosyphoned groups. The hard truth is that people need to use different offsets for the same model machines. My guess is that this is one of those chaotic thermodynamic things, where even tiny differences, well within manufacturing specs, in the sensor position or positioning of the group, can amplify into much bigger differences in the offset.

I've posted a how to on calibrating the offset using flash boiling without needing a Scace or similar temperature measuring device. This may be helpful.
Jim Schulman

wesleynance

Postby wesleynance » Oct 27, 2018, 6:21 pm

I have a first generation Scace poratilter insert for bottomless portafilter that just has the thermocouple, no pressure info (don't need it!). It doesn't fit in the Lelit bottomless portafilter, but my old Expobar bottomless fits, so I've done a few checks with that in the day I've had the machine.

I didn't let the Expobar portafilter heat up properly, so I'll have to check again tomorrow. It looked like my offset was too low. I was set at 200F on the Lelit, and I was seeing more like 195 in the Scace. That sounds more similar to your machine, Jim. I didn't change the offset yet, just raised the displayed temp.

wesleynance

Postby wesleynance » Oct 28, 2018, 6:22 pm

Updating after playing around again tonight, with the Scace portafilter fully heated. It actually looks like my machine is running hot from the offset- if I'm set at 197 in LCC I get 199ish at the Scace. If I start with lower pressure (say 4 bar or so) the temp is definitely cooler for a bit by a few degrees, never quite gets up to 199 after 15 secs or so, but if I swing over to 9bar, the temp comes up to 199.

This sounds a little like one of the reviews I read but I can't remember which.

Note that I have been giving the machine a 5 second flush without the portafilter to stabilize the group before these simulated pulls.

I wonder if the factory offset is set with the full portafilter (not the bottomless) which would have a lot more metal and be able to pull the shot temp down more?

Thoughts?

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another_jim
Team HB

Postby another_jim » Oct 28, 2018, 7:05 pm

Yours runs hot, mine cool with the same offset. Buy a GS3, same thing, buy any DB, same thing. Offsets are jiggly, expect to calibrate it.
Jim Schulman

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HB
Admin

Postby HB » Oct 28, 2018, 7:29 pm

As another data point, I just checked my 2 group Strada and the offsets for the two boilers are -1.8°F and -4.0°F (I calibrated them using a Scace thermofilter and re-check them 1-2x a year). So even for the same multi-group espresso machine, as Jim suggested, the offsets are "jiggly".
Dan Kehn

wesleynance

Postby wesleynance » Oct 29, 2018, 11:42 am

Jim,

I wasn't meaning to complain about the need to calibrate offset, or that it's a problem that yours is different from mine. That all makes perfect sense to me. Coming from a low end HX Expobar, I am really excited about PID temp stability, and so trying to wrap my head around the E61 in that setting verses a saturated group, etc. I was most curious about two things:

1. Will the offset be different with more mass in the portafilter, say using the full coffee slide LeLit portafilter, which is quite heavy, compared to the LeLit bottomless, which is quite light? My Rancilio bottomless is quite a bit heavier than my LeLit bottomless, so wondering if even those two would be different? I can only use the Rancilio with my Scace basket. It seems like with a heavier portafilter effectively adding mass to the group, and being under temp a bit once you lock the shot in, that the boiler would need to be set a bit hotter to account for more loss of heat at the group.

2. Even with a stabilization flush, is it expected that the temp will run lower when using the paddle to ramp down pressure? Mine seems to sit several degrees cool if I start the shot with the paddle pointed straight at me (runs around 4 bar on the gauge with the Scace in) and then it ramps up to the set temp once the paddle is hard right.

I am loving this machine, and have a bunch of other questions now that I've used it for a few days. I'll ask them in another post at some point.

Thanks!

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another_jim
Team HB

Postby another_jim » Oct 29, 2018, 2:14 pm

The spouted Lelit PF sheds more heat than the bottomless, so the group runs about 1C cooler with it mounted. However, this effect may disappear in actual shots, since the covered PF insulates the basket, and prevents it from shedding the brew water's heat. Way back when, the early adopters of naked PFs noted cooler tasting, slightly more acidic shots.

In my experience, the taste is most affected by the temperature of the water that first soaks the puck. On the Bianca, I could, for the first time, use faster and slower flow rates that hit the same brew ratio after the same preinfusion time; and I didn't get much difference in taste. If this is true, it's the initial temperature, which is roughly the group temperature, that is the most important. If this is the case, the flow/temperature variations I worried about early in the review are a red herring. I removed that video from the bench thread until I can figure this out for certain. But if I had to give my 2 cents right now; I'd say manage the initial shot temperature, and let the rest take care of itself.
Jim Schulman

wesleynance

Postby wesleynance » Oct 30, 2018, 8:56 pm

Still fiddling around with the Scace. Yesterday, it was pulling pretty much right at the set temp, pretty much always starting low, and then eventually peaking right at the set temp, so maybe my offset is right on. I'm not sure why this has been different three days in a row.

I'm trying to figure out your idea that the temp of the first water that hits the puck is the most important, as that seems on my machine, at least, to be quite a bit lower than the set front panel temp. Mine can take 15 secs or so to come close to the panel temp.

Made an amazing capp today, best I've ever had, so it's all working. I've been fooling around with a profile I saw in some other thread- 20 sec slow preinfuse (2 bar or so), then 8 sec at 4bar, then up to 9 bar or so.

Do you have a post somewhere with possible profiles posted to try?

Also loving the huge drip tray- plenty of room for cups, and lots of clearance for mugs. Do you have a small scale that you like that works well to put under cups on the drip tray? Mine is too large, and won't zero out properly.

Any ideas about a shot mirror for this machine? I probably will never run the regular portafilter, since I'm always wanting to watch the extraction. So I'm constantly bending under to check the shot.

Thanks!