Lelit Bianca User Experience - Page 39

Need help with equipment usage or want to share your latest discovery?
Mesmer

#381: Post by Mesmer » May 07, 2019, 3:16 am

Why are you interested in using a machine to simulate other machines?
I'd focus strictly on flow/pressure profiles and specific coffees.

Mrboots2u

#382: Post by Mrboots2u » May 07, 2019, 6:30 am

selmerfudd wrote:""""""""""[/color]

Jim you said , "The Bianca acts like a standard E61 when the paddle is full right" .For real ?? ,, I'm surprised since the preinfusion is inhibited seeing the pre infusion spring is set at 12 bars. Is the Bianca's """fully open gicleur""" a smaller orfice than a stadard E61, and does that act like a "pseudo" pre infusion ???

Also ,,I think it would be time for a welcome addition to these posts and for all reading this that a list be compiled - sort of recipe list . Something that would be a compilation of different coffee recipes ,, for instance what is the recipe for correctly imitating a piston lever machine, or a Vibratory pump E61? What recipe would best imitate a Slayer, or a Synesso -- or a Strega with the combination of the internal pump and piston arrangement (I say Strega because you have had experince with one) ?? Etc etc.

It woudl be intersting for sure . I am also anxious to see one developped ! I am especially intersted in how to match a Bianca to imitate a Vesuvius ,, Why Vesuvius??? -- because although a Vesuvius uses pressure variation and not flow profile-- it does so with a variable speed pump ,,so in fact it also varies the flow due to the pump turning slower sending less water along.
Buy a vesuvius and pre programme it to replicate the machines you mention.

guydebord

#383: Post by guydebord » May 07, 2019, 8:15 am

I bought a Bianca because it allows me to experiment with finding the best profile/temp for every bean as well as test non-typical extraction ratios through grind manipulation, all of this with dynamic direct feedback and not programming. I don't care for mimicking any machine, that would be too constraining and does not make any sense for a Bianca. If you want mimicking, the suggestion of buying a Vesuvius is the closest, an R9 or DE1 would also fit better.
In girum imus nocte et consumimur igni

User avatar
another_jim
Team HB

#384: Post by another_jim » May 07, 2019, 10:14 am

selmerfudd wrote:I'm surprised since the preinfusion is inhibited seeing the pre infusion spring is set at 12 bars. Is the Bianca's """fully open gicleur""" a smaller orfice than a stadard E61, and does that act like a "pseudo" pre infusion ???
Wow, the Bianca discussion, with all this talk of water debit, dwell times, real versus pseudo-preinfusion, has gone back to partying like its 1999!

Axiom (courtesy of David Ross): The only thing the puck sees is water at a certain pressure and temperature. If for about 5 seconds the puck is slowly wetting at no pressure, then for the next 3 seconds, the pressure rises to 9 bar, and then the flow starts, you have an E61 style preinfusion. The manual group does it with a spring loaded piston. The auto group does it with a smaller jet and a larger fill-up space, the Bianca with needle valve is somewhere in between. In each case, the puck sees the same thing. Presumably the Bianca engineers retuned the spring so the timing on the group with needle valve stays in this standard E61 range.

Personally, I'm preinfusing for about 15 to 30 seconds, depending on coffee and my mood, which is how I was previously using my lever machine. This is why I got the Bianca in the first place. If you are looking for a profiling machine that can give you the option of a very short dwell time, no E61 based set up will do, regardless of how you jigger its water debit and spring rate. If you think you might be missing out, ask DE1 owners how often they do short preinfusion or dwell time shots on their machines. If it's something they do frequently and successfully, this limit on E61 based profiling would be telling. Otherwise, not.
Jim Schulman

pcrussell50

#385: Post by pcrussell50 » May 07, 2019, 2:18 pm

another_jim wrote: Personally, I'm preinfusing for about 15 to 30 seconds, depending on coffee and my mood, which is how I was previously using my lever machine. This is why I got the Bianca in the first place. If you are looking for a profiling machine that can give you the option of a very short dwell time, no E61 based set up will do, regardless of how you jigger its water debit and spring rate. If you think you might be missing out, ask DE1 owners how often they do short preinfusion or dwell time shots on their machines. If it's something they do frequently and successfully, this limit on E61 based profiling would be telling. Otherwise, not.
Agreed. If you are the sort who sticks to the same bean all the time and that bean likes a long slow pre infusion then you're good to go. But I try a variety of beans, most of the time, light long pre infusion beans 90% of the time, but sometimes mediums which do well with a whambam sudden slug of 8-12 ml/s flow that mashes the puck into a cake-filter for those old skool thick syrupy espresso porn type pulls that were all the rage a few years back. For those, I just open the needle and let the pump wallop the puck for that old skool Linea style shot. Plus, my wife doesn't like "that bright third wave" (her words), as much as I do, so it's nice to be able to do both.

-Peter
LMWDP #553

User avatar
another_jim
Team HB

#386: Post by another_jim » May 07, 2019, 2:35 pm

Yeah, like an E61, as in 1961, can't do old school, syrupy mouthfeel shots. But you're right, for that classic Seattle style "put on your tongue protector, cause this ain't for girlie-men" shots, the E61 is wimpy, and there's nothing quite like a no gicleur Linea. :wink:
Jim Schulman

selmerfudd

#387: Post by selmerfudd » May 07, 2019, 4:16 pm

another_jim wrote: Presumably the Bianca engineers retuned the spring so the timing on the group with needle valve stays in this standard E61 range.

.
\

Yes JIm ,,but as an engineer I notice tech talk more than I do other details. Did I not read earlier in this thread that the pre-infusion spring on the Bianca is set very high otherwise it would interfere with the manual paddle and how it is being used? As a result this actually denies water access to the pre- infusion chamber. This is so noticeable on the Bianca by the quantity of water evacuated at the end of a shot .
Even the Vesuvius needs to do something similar to prevent profile interference . When I visited the ACS factory , it was made clear that the Vesuvius has the preinfusion spring removed alltogether and that the first 8cc of water fills the preinfusion chamber as soon as water arrives not after the 4 bars are reached .

As for the rest ,,I am not suggesting that a Bianca be used simply for imitating other machines -- of course not -- that woudl be silly . Only that it might prove interesting to taste the same coffee beans extracted from identifiable alternative profiles.

wesleynance

#388: Post by wesleynance » May 10, 2019, 5:09 pm

I see on a lot of threads, including the new Profitec "flow control", that people are trying to modify the paddle handle to get a wider range of motion for a higher flow rate at the open setting. What's the value in that? I've had my Bianca since October, and I sort of understand what I'm doing, but I have my paddle wide open to the right exactly never. Is that this groups' experience? If I'm aiming for 9 bar at the group gauge, or instead approximately 1g/sec in the cup, I'm usually at 6 to 9 o'clock on the paddle.

Are we hoping for a higher max flow for Bianca? What's most people's stock flow wide open- mine looks to be 5.5ml/sec, so maybe I should move my paddle over one spline towards open?

Thoughts?

guydebord

#389: Post by guydebord » replying to wesleynance » May 10, 2019, 5:13 pm

The Profitec is a Frankenstein, needs more tweaking, I suspect because of the spring... the Bianca's flow is perfect!
In girum imus nocte et consumimur igni

wesleynance

#390: Post by wesleynance » May 10, 2019, 5:26 pm

Steam tips!

I am a latte art nut, so the quality of micro foam is a big deal to me. I am totally happy with the steam power of the Bianca, but have been feeling a little caught in the middle with steam tips.

The small hole tip (two 1mm holes) works in a small (350ml) pitcher steaming 175ml of milk for me if my boiler is cranked to the max setting of 1.85 bar. Milk quality is fantastic and I don't waste much milk. We typically drink 6 oz capps.

I was given a Decent milk pitcher which has a sharper spout, which I want to use to pour latte art, and to get milk to swirl in this pitcher I need to use 200ml milk, and the small hole tip no longer has enough power.

When I switch to the big hole tip (two 1.5mm holes) I get tons of power and I can lower my boiler pressure to 1.3bar or lower, which is preferable over the life of the machine. However, I cannot find a way to get fine micro foam with this tip and I have come to the conclusion that the hole sizes are too big. I am good at steaming milk, and the quality of foam between the two tips is not even close. So for me, the big hole tip is not an option.

I went looking for another option, and found a no burn tip, same male threads, that has four .9mm holes. It just arrived, and I think this is the answer for me. On first try in the Decent pitcher, with my boiler turns down to 1.3 bar, I got excellent quality micro foam. This tip is slightly slower than the Lelit big hole tip, but not by much. I think it's an excellent option, and I would encourage Lelit to give us another similar option. Pictures to follow. ImageImage