Trying to get the hang of using this machine... and yes, I still have not gotten used to the Breville 870... so madness...





Anyway. A few things on just the way this machine is... A few things that will take time to get used to and things I wish were different:

1. Drip tray is too narrow... it should be wider by at least 1". When you do the flush without the portafilter, water hits the border of the drip tray. Now I see why folks have a plastic bowl to catch everything...

2. I hate not having a faucet/sink right next to it...

3. I hope this one is just because of how much I am using it while I learn... but the frequent emptying of the drip tray gets old quickly. So is filling the tank with water... I need to find a way to run plumbing and a drain line to it... quick...

4. The mess of coffee grounds all over... I am trying to keep things cleaned and trying to make as little mess as possible... not doing well on this front I need a trash can close by... I need a roll of paper towels close by... again, could be the newbie element in all this...

5. I need a single dose electric grinder... trying to use the Helor 101 to learn with the machine is not the way to go... I am running through a lot of Red Bird Brazil Sweet Blue just finding the right dose, grind setting, etc. Can't wait for the orders open for the Monolith titan conical grinder... manual grinding for a beginner just adds a bit of frustration... I am testing using the grinder from the Breville to speed up some of the tests... I have been holding back on using the Rancilio Rocky simply because of the feedback in this forum...



6. Can't wait for the bottomless pf to get here so that I can better see my mistakes with the shot...

Oh well... here is one pull... I am using the Decent Espresso 18gram basket, portafilter that I borrowed from Alan, 17.2 grams of Red Bird Brazil Sweet Blue, WDT, tamp, pull... 27 grams out. Still not as good as what I get in the Breville (and that one I don't think that I have master a grand pull, but it tastes better from the Breville)...

I was having a hard time controlling the temperature... I would flush before pulling the shot... but by the time I had the scale back in place, portafilter in, cup there, phone ready to record the video, etc. temp had climbed back...

Critique away!
That first pull was too fast... dialed in the grinder to a finer setting... here is the second try...
I know, I need like 5lbs of coffee beans and follow the recommended thread until I get it right...

Espresso 101: How to Adjust Dose and Grind Setting by Taste

Oh... and I tried using the steam wand to heat up the milk for my wife's latte... wow! 0 to 165 °F in less than a few seconds Needless to say, had to start over since that milk looked bad... something that would take me some 30 seconds on the Breville... it was insane fast

You are brewing in high temperature. You must work your cooling flush. I'd sell the breville and buy a better grinder.

Just waiting on the orders for the Monolith titan conical grinder to open (May timeframe)... I would like to hold off buying anything in between until that comes out.

And yes... need to work on cooling it down and moving quick enough to pull the shot at the right temp It helps if I do all that without worrying about videos, scale, etc.

Breville not going away until I get the hang of the Cellini... at least I can make something that I can drink in that one...

Bottomless will be a great diagnostic tool. As noted your temp seems a little too high.

Also I would recommend using a plastic container during your flush routine as it cuts down the splashing and needing to empty the drip tray.

When you say the breville shots were "better", can you be more specific about what you like about it? That will help diagnose your issue. Are you brewing the exact same brew ratio for both?

Dan, on the Breville I do not think that I am pulling the best espresso possible from the machine... so with that one I know that I still have a long way to go... but the workflow overall is easier than with the Rocket... I use the integrated grinder, easy, got the dose down (I use 15 or 16 grams instead of 18)... the pulls come out with the right texture/fluid consistency... they look great, great crema, I have nothing to compare to as far as taste, sweetness, etc., but with the 1 or 2 grams of sugar I put in them... they taste great. It is a creamy, dark chocolate-like shot... flavor last in my mouth for hours... even my clothes get impregnated with the aroma... I like all that

I will try again tonight... I will try to keep it simple. Same brew ration than on the Breville to be able to compare. Will forget about trying to document anything with videos just to focus on temp control as well. And yes, already took a plastic container to catch the water on the flushes...

Before I share this, I have to say, I love making espresso... all this crap is not discouraging me from moving ahead...

I know that the frustration comes from everything... the dip tray process to empty it without making a mess walking from the cart to the sink... the amount of time needed to manually grind the beans, to pull a bad shot and start again, the cleaning of the basket and there goes a bit of coffee grounds on the floor... or the time I grind, then tamp, turn the pf just a bit to get rid of the loose grounds and out goes the coffee puk!! , so I get to start again...

I need to simplify as much as I can... some of the pain is just not making the area more comfortable to use while making the espressos.

1. I need a good grinder (May can't come soon enough). I just don't want to even try using the Rocky with the reviews I have read here... but then I have second thoughts that I should and see what I get... that will cut down on the manual grinding while I dial things in...but if the quality of it is one that will still be inferior to what the Breville grinder provides then why even start...
2. Use the Breville grinder for now... Portafilters do not fit so I will need to workaround it... using the breville bottomless PF without a basket and the Rocket PF under it... will try that tonight... maybe all this works with the funnel as well in place...
3. Suck it up and continue to dial in the Helor 101 grinder...
4. I need to plumb at least the drain... even if, for now, I route it to a 5 gal bucket(like the wife will let me do that!!! )...maybe I can remove one of the shelves in the cart and place a tank of the bucket there... It really needs a proper setup and go to the drain... Machine did not bring any of the plumbing kit so I will need to order all that...
5. I need a trash can for this area...something nice looking that the wife will not cringe when she sees it... so that I can put in the dirty paper towels and minimize coffee grounds all over...
6. Espazzola cleaning tool ordered. Should be a heck of a lot easier to how I do it today...

Apologies for the long post... I am just trying to break the frustration down to its parts so that I can address the easy stuff...

At the end I want to pull a shot like this one... and hope that it tastes even more amazing than what it looks...

https://www.instagram.com/p/ysEGNvGoG5/ ... by=kafatek

I order some Vivace Dolce Espresso to play with...

Sorry if you already mentioned this, but it's very important that you weigh your dry and wet weight to ensure consistency as you are diagnosing these changes.

Yes. Doing that. On the Breville I put 15grams in and 22-24 grams out. I will try the same ratio with the Rocket. I will test 15 grams and 18 grams with that ratio out... I have several sized baskets so I will match the basket to the dose if that makes any difference.

15 grams in ->22-24 grams out
18 grams in -> 27-29 grams out

Thank you. Keep comments/suggestions coming. Also reading this article:

http://www.espressomyespresso.com/HowToEspresso.html

Having a hard time controlling temp with flushes... first shot the temp went to 209...

I grind, get everything ready... look at machine and temp would be at 202, flush and it goes to 211 while flushing...comes down to 205 a few seconds after I stop the flush, then goes down to 198... I think that I am set, portafilter in, pull the shot, temp drops to 194...

Pulled four shots... 15 grams in, 15 gram basket, approximately 23 grams out. Red Bird Sweet Blue. All with using WDT, tap once, tamp (25lbs spring in tamper), polish

1st Too fine of a grind...nothing comes out. This is at 14 dots on the Helor 101 grinder
2nd 15 dots on the Helor grinder. 42 seconds since pulling lever for 23 grams... father-in-law tells me that does not taste as good as Breville...
3rd 16 dots on Helor grinder. 22.9 grams out. 35 seconds. Much better taste. This one I drink... first sip not sour nor bitter...drink a few sips without sugar.
4th shot same settings give to father-in-law. Much better than the one he had before...

Good crema... just not as much as the Breville and the espresso does not taste as creamy... I am going to do a back to back with thr Breville to better compared...might not sleep all night