La Marzocco's New $4500 Linea Mini - Page 11

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Ben Z.

#101: Post by Ben Z. »

malling wrote:Calling the 175ml brew-boiler a boiler is a bit misleading, It's a square block of metal with a heating element that is not even controlled by a PID but a potentiometer, my v2b has a boiler that is more then 4times as big, and in the world of espresso that is tiny.

your getting allot more for the money in the Vesuvius
The LM website says it is controlled by a PID. Where are you getting the info that it is a potentiometer controlling the brew temp? I really don't care if I use a wheel or buttons to set the temp, if it is still controlled via PID. First machine I've considered since buying my A3 years ago...

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shadowfax

#102: Post by shadowfax »

Dan got a clarification from Scott Guglielmino at LM USA that the Linea Mini uses a Gicar PID, with the knob (potentiometer) being an input into the temperature setting. That potentiometer is calibrated at the factory, and will be marked with the position for 200°F. There will be no possible end-user calibration, it seems.

So the Linea Mini definitely has a PID, it just doesn't have a display. This means that you get all the consistency of a PID, but no (potentially inaccurate) number to fixate on.
Nicholas Lundgaard

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boost

#103: Post by boost »

Ben Z. wrote:The LM website says it is controlled by a PID. Where are you getting the info that it is a potentiometer controlling the brew temp? I really don't care if I use a wheel or buttons to set the temp, if it is still controlled via PID. First machine I've considered since buying my A3 years ago...

I think this is why I am curious what Dan's scace test would reveal. We've been really conditioned into thinking bigger = better thermal stability and dual boiler and saturated group is the end all solution.

In truth even with true dual boiler saturated group has a not insignificant offset between the actual temp reading and group head temperature. In the end what really matters is the temperature of less than 50 mL of water out of the group head. I for one would like to see what can be done with better agility of the pid control and more innovative thermal management design.
More water is good for heat retention but also takes more energy and time to heat up.

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uscfroadie (original poster)

#104: Post by uscfroadie (original poster) »

shadowfax wrote:Dan got a clarification from Scott Guglielmino at LM USA that the Linea Mini uses a Gicar PID, with the knob (potentiometer) being an input into the temperature setting. That potentiometer is calibrated at the factory, and will be marked with the position for 200°F. There will be no possible end-user calibration, it seems.

So the Linea Mini definitely has a PID, it just doesn't have a display. This means that you get all the consistency of a PID, but no (potentially inaccurate) number to fixate on.
Nicholas,

In my opinion that is really the best of both worlds as it will force people to adjust by taste rather than by number. Just look at how many people rely on numbers without even knowing how accurate (or inaccurate) they are.

Just my $.02.
Merle

malling

#105: Post by malling »

I have already owned a DB Machine with a potentiometer, it was absolutely rubbish in day to day use compared to what a digital display is offering, and no I don't really care about if the number it shows is correct, what I care about is that when I have set my display at 92C I get the same brew temperature every time it set the PID display at 92c. And the display gives me a clear reference mark, and if the dialed temperature is spot on with a particular coffee, I can write that down for the next time I'll buy that coffee.

But just as importantly, the display allows me to change the PID parameters, what optimum for these depends on the location and user patterns, so what is optimum at the LM facilities and in their mind, might not necessarily be the case in my flat and with my usage pattern. So I might need to be able to change these to get the machine to perform it's best, I needed to change them on my V2B, as the setting where to conservative for my liking.

The T1 I used to own where also controlled by a PID, but just like the Linea Mini it did not have a digital display, it used LED lights on a control box located inside the machine, so you had to remove the cup warmer tray to get a clue what you where doing, especially if you needed to make bigger changes, but for one or two degree changes it where not necessary to remove the cup warmer tray, but still I would not want that solution on a DB machine, as I personally want a clear reference mark.

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Bob_McBob

#106: Post by Bob_McBob »

I wonder what percentage of DB PID machine owners routinely make precise temperature adjustments and alter PID programming values.
Chris

Tanax

#107: Post by Tanax »

So.. ugly :( :(

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contraflow88
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#108: Post by contraflow88 »

I agree with Merle, so much emphasis on numbers... But I think that arises from the obsession of reproducing what our favorites shops are putting out. That I can do it too mentality. Also some roasters post recommended temps and weights. Kinda hard not to get caught up with all that.

The dial and all that is going to be tested and more will surface on that. At the moment for me would be how well the group performs In terms of stability. The paddle is nice, if you have ever used a paddle group it's just one of those things you like or you dislike. Coming from a GS/3 I like the paddle and the looks. For the money, it's up there. But we see this with all things you get what you pay for and that may not be equal to what you get with product X but for sure you will get a good machine. I think this machine is promising, low maintenance, possible areas for those who like to tinker (PID, wand, profiling, etc...).

LM has had more than enough time to hear the gripes and complaints from users of the GS/3 to make a product worthy for the home user. Some may not be so inclined to get into obsessive parameters. Just good, reproducible espresso with commercial and high quality parts at the heart of the product. The pictures that I saw looked almost like the interior of any GS/3 with curly cables and zip ties which is all very neat.

Finally, I think some folks are upset at the price and perhaps scared that this maybe a worthy upgraditis down the road.

cmin

#109: Post by cmin »

Bob_McBob wrote:I wonder what percentage of DB PID machine owners routinely make precise temperature adjustments and alter PID programming values.
Not a DB, but with my machine I'm always changing the PID from 198-206 depending on bean/blend being used at the time, though I keep notes in my phone so that way when going back to a bean/blend I'll know right where to start for temp.

Kurtz

#110: Post by Kurtz »

shadowfax wrote: So the Linea Mini definitely has a PID, it just doesn't have a display. This means that you get all the consistency of a PID, but no (potentially inaccurate) number to fixate on.
It's a strange idea - at this price point - when I want to change coffee I have to play with the little wheel to slowly find again shot by shot the right temperature. 4 different coffees in a day? Not with this machine...