La Marzocco Linea Mini warm up time

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atao

Postby atao » May 16, 2018, 12:53 pm

Hello,

I was getting some sour shots on my linea mini. I believe i've resolved the problem but i'm not entirely satisfied with the outcome.

What i think i'm observing is that if i just wait 10-15 minutes for the machine to warm up, if i test the water temp out of the grouphead, it is quite a bit lower than the temp that i get if i wait for 45min for the machine to warm up. For example, if i've got the machine set to 203 on the dial, it does end up getting to this temp with the long warm up. But no matter how much flushing i do, if i test at 10, 15, 20 minutes, the water is something like 190, 192, 195, respectively and so on.

When i measure water temperature with this same methodology (holding Themapen tip on grouphead where water comes out) on a fully warmed up Duetto, i see a strong correlation between the measured and programmed (PID) temp. So that's one point of evidence that my methodology is not terrible. Also, the fact that if i wait a long time for the mini to warm, it also hits the dial temp also is another upvote for this way of measuring temp.

Given all that, what i'm confused about is that Dan had said that you could get to stable brew temp by waiting only 15 min + flushing or 45 min no flushing. While i think the 45 is right, i'm no where close with 15 min warmup and flushing. I'm like 10 degrees cold. And i certainly have tried to flush multiple times or flush, wait, flush wait, that sort of thing.

Do i just need to wait 45 min or is it possible that my machine has an issue?

Andrew

dsblv

Postby dsblv » May 16, 2018, 3:49 pm

My experience shows the Mini needs about 30 minutes to warm up. My PID is typically set to 200 degrees. If your data shows you need 45 minutes, then that's a perfectly good answer, too.

ryuemura

Postby ryuemura » May 16, 2018, 4:09 pm

Mine is generally ready to go after 30ish mins. If you're using your machine everyday, you shouldn't be shutting it down, these machines are meant to stay on 24/7. I only turn mine off if I know I won't be making drinks for at least 24-36 hours. The constant on/off will use more electricity and wear valves and other internals quicker. I agree with dsblv, if you're getting good results at 45 mins, just wait the extra 15-20 mins. I wouldn't say there's anything wrong with your machine, at least to the point of returning or having it serviced. Chris from La Marzocco Home will have a better answer than any of us could provide.

atao

Postby atao » May 16, 2018, 4:43 pm

I really appreciate the replies, folks.

I feel better knowing that this is expected. I just wish that the early reviews and PR for the product didn't lead you to believe that warmup time was going to <= 15 minutes.

I'm guessing that the reason it takes longer than 15 min to warm up is because the water filling the brew boiler is likely not up to temp because it's coming from the steam boiler HX, which likely takes longer than 15 min to get to temp?

Andrew

dsblv

Postby dsblv » May 16, 2018, 4:55 pm

Yes, there's a fair amount of water and metal that needs to heat up to stabilize the machine. The Mini's warm up time is still faster than the E61 HX I previously owned.

baristabazza

Postby baristabazza » May 16, 2018, 4:59 pm

Mine is good to go in 10-15 mins. 230v machine though. 110v will be longer im guessing.

User avatar
HB
Admin

Postby HB » May 16, 2018, 5:00 pm

atao wrote:I feel better knowing that this is expected. I just wish that the early reviews and PR for the product didn't lead you to believe that warmup time was going to <= 15 minutes.

Hmm-m, I don't recall anyone claiming <= 15 minutes, though it's not that far off thanks to its small saturated boiler. This is what I reported in the La Marzocco Linea Mini Review:

HB wrote:The steam boiler vacuum breaker closes @ 9 minutes and the steam boiler is pressurized @ 13 minutes. If allowed to warm up with no flushing, the brew group stabilizes in ~40 minutes. In actual use, I flush @ 15 minutes for a few seconds then it's ready 5 minutes later.
Dan Kehn

RikC

Postby RikC » May 16, 2018, 5:59 pm

HB wrote:Hmm-m, I don't recall anyone claiming <= 15 minutes, though it's not that far off thanks to its small saturated boiler. This is what I reported in the La Marzocco Linea Mini Review:


Well I have claimed it :mrgreen: Probably also here in some old post and recently on a Dutch coffee forum. But... first of all mine is also 230V.

I've measured with a stopwatch. After about 8 minutes the heating light and the machine can be activated. After about 12 minutes you can hear that the heating in the brew group switches off: relays clicks are audible and typical water heat sound of heating elements stops... Maybe thats different in the 110v version if less powerful heating elements are installed but in the 230v version you can hear it.

It will make espresso at this point, I've tried.

However the temperature will not yet be stable when doing anything else than a small cup. This is because the steam boiler keeps heating up until about 18 min. You can monitor this on the pressure gauge.

This will influence doing longer shots since the Mini works a bit differently than most machines. It takes pre heated water from a sizeable hx in the steam boiler and mixes this with cold reservoir water. This provides feed water within a certain temperature range which is then fed to the brew group which does the final bit of heating via pid control. It's been a while but his has been elaborated upon somewhere in the loooong thread LM user experience thread quite a while ago by someone who studied a disassembled machine. So basically you can look at it as a hybrid between a hx and a double boiler machine. It explains the quick warm up and rapid recovery between shots.

After 18 minutes, on a 230v model, parts of the housing will still heat up further. I guess this takes about 30-40 minutes. The brew path is stabilized quite quickly though.

P.S., I leave it on 24/7 as well most of the time. Same reasons as stated in this thread earlier.

atao

Postby atao » May 16, 2018, 7:25 pm

@Dan, sorry, yes you're right, you were at 20min, not 15.

Again, thanks all, I feel like this is well explained now.
Good to know that the 230V machines heat up faster.