nuketopia wrote:Curiously, most of the hand-wringing about "pre-infusion" is from people who don't own the LMLM. Honestly, I've owned it for over 3 years and it makes really great coffee, shot, after shot, after shot. I've not run into any good bean that it couldn't pull a great shot from.

Isn't that what counts?

+1. Pre-infusion would be nifty and all, but I honestly am perfectly happy with the results I've been getting with my LMLM for the last three years. I'd consider the kit if it's affordable and relatively easy to install, but it's absolutely not something I worry about.

This is what I tell people who don't play around with highly acidic coffees that need taming down. And I use my machine with little or no pre infusion for these more traditional type coffees.

But some of us DO like to play with super light super acidic coffees. And that's when we break out the pre infusion.

-Peter

pcrussell50 wrote:This is what I tell people who don't play around with highly acidic coffees that need taming down. And I use my machine with little or no pre infusion for these more traditional type coffees.

But some of us DO like to play with super light super acidic coffees. And that's when we break out the pre infusion.

-Peter

Such as?

I've certainly pulled many light roasts with no problems. Every time I've started discussion on the subject in the coffees sub-forum, it invariably turns into, "this is really light", and I try it and say, "no problem, it's quite good" then someone else jumps in and says, "that's not really light!!! this is!" and I try that, and again, "no problem" and then I get another, "that's not really light...".


So what are you pulling that's incredibly delicious that you feel cannot be prepared without a pre-infusion?

Instead of naming coffees, we can stay closer to the thread title topic if we first establish what you are claiming...

Are you claiming that Slayer, DE, LM (as they move the GS/3 in the direction of better flow control), Bianca, Mina, Duvall, etc... and all these people who have or want flow control/pre infusion are mistaken about the benefits of pre infusion?

Or

Are you saying that there is something about the LMLM that even though it lacks pre infusion, has some other kind of mojo where it doesn't need it because it can do without pre infusion, what those other machines need pre infusion to achieve?

Based on your previous posts, your stance on the matter is not clear.

-Peter

No I just want to know what coffee it is that can't be made on the LMLM.

I haven't found one.

Even if you have a chance to compare the same coffee with PI and without PI, you might still prefer the flavor without PI and there is nothing wrong with it.

But without a doubt, it has proven that PI and flow profiling can yield higher extractions and flavors but the extra flavors may not be to your liking.

There are still people out there who drank their first espresso at starbucks and still prefer the dark strong punch you in the face espresso from starbucks.

If you enjoy the coffee from your LMLM, which does make a good decent cup of espresso, then you got your money worth.

mathof wrote:What this shows is that you can pull espressos acceptable to you without preinfusion, not that you can get the same results in the cup as those who do use PI. To demonstrate the latter, you would need to have two machines (yours and a PI-capable one) side-by-side and A/B the results.

I have access to such machinery.

But it is still a serious question, what coffee? I really want to order some and try it.

I've certainly pulled some amazingly light roasted coffees, including very light Nordic/Scandinavian roasts. Sometimes it takes different techniques to get the most from a bean, like very soft water, dose-grind-time adjustments, temperature, etc.

I do have the tools to measure extraction yields, so the objective side is there. I'm pretty demanding as far as flavors go.

So, try me. I'm curious.

mathof wrote: I don't have a dog in this fight, as I prefer medium and medium-light roasts to highly acidic very light roasts. As to particular coffees, I mainly roast my own. As I understand the theory, though, the idea is to increase extraction yield from difficult-to-extract beans by grinding them very finely, so finely that they would clog the machine without preinfusion.

I guess if you can't arrange to setup an A/B test with someone near you who has a lever or profiling machine, you could wait until LM releases its preinfusion app for the Linea Mini, grind some super-light coffee so fine it would choke your machine, then PI it and see what you think of the taste.

So which coffee?

Why is this so hard?