La Marzocco Linea Mini - Follow up question on leaving on 24/7

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BoulderMike

#1: Post by BoulderMike » Aug 31, 2019, 6:50 pm

I know this has been discussed a lot. But, the last mention I see is a couple of years old. Now that there are more users I would like to start a discussion as to what LMLM owners are doing in terms of leaving on 24/7 or turning off each day. For me, I use it daily in the morning, and leave it on 24/7. I only do this because the last advice I got from Chris was to do this to prevent issues with the boiler, etc. Others seem to have gotten different advice. Although I do care about wasting energy, my other concern is just that the machine feels hot to the touch 24/7. I would prefer to only have it on in the morning when I am using it, but I don't want to cause premature issues which require maintenance. One of the reasons I purchased the LMLM is the belief that the maintenance would be less frequent due to it being commercial grade, and also due to its relative simple design in terms of bells and whistles.

For those who have had the machine for a while, I would like to ask for your opinions and experiences in terms of turning it on and off, or leaving it on 24/7. Oh, I should add that I have only had mine since May. I am extremely happy with the daily ease of use and consistent results I get, I just want to minimize maintenance issues, while also minimizing energy costs and heat generated in my kitchen from the machine being on 24/7.

Thanks to all, and I hope everyone who does own the LMLM is as happy as I am.

Jasper_8137

#2: Post by Jasper_8137 » Sep 02, 2019, 10:47 am

I've had my LMLM for about 18 months now. The first 9 months or so I used a timer to cycle it on in the mornings. I then had my vacuum breaker fail. I was disappointed that it went out so quickly (I had a Rancilio Epoca that was probably 10 years old without any issues) but LM quickly had a tech come out and replace it as it was under warranty. Chris recommended that I keep it on 24/7 to prevent wear from cycling on and off, which I have done except when traveling. It's been about 9 months and no issues. I too would rather turn it off to conserve energy, however, Chris assured me that the mini was designed to be left on and then when accounting for the energy needed to warm from cold relative to maintaining its running temperature, the energy use is negligible. Not sure if that's 100% accurate, but that's what I'm going with until I learn otherwise.

pcrussell50

#3: Post by pcrussell50 » Sep 02, 2019, 11:29 am

What is it with the LMLM and vacuum breakers? This is the second recent thread in which LMLM VB's are brought up. In most other machines VB's are cheap, easy to replace, and/or easy to remove, clean, and put back into service. Is there something unique about this particular application that breaks all those rules?

Also, VB's are simple robust devices. I have a hard time believing that having them cycle by powering on and off is particularly harmful to them. They ought to be good for thousands of cycles, you would think... And they usually are. Scale on the other hand, can cause them to stick open and not seal like they are supposed to, when boiler pressure comes up. Removing and soaking in descaler usually fixes them. But this is not due to fragile design, it's due to abuse (bad water), and is still a pretty easy fix anyway.

The LMLM is unique in many ways. Does it possibly have some kind of unique, non-standard VB scheme as well?

-Peter
LMWDP #553

BoulderMike

#4: Post by BoulderMike » Sep 02, 2019, 12:06 pm

Jasper_8137 wrote:I've had my LMLM for about 18 months now. The first 9 months or so I used a timer to cycle it on in the mornings. I then had my vacuum breaker fail. I was disappointed that it went out so quickly (I had a Rancilio Epoca that was probably 10 years old without any issues) but LM quickly had a tech come out and replace it as it was under warranty. Chris recommended that I keep it on 24/7 to prevent wear from cycling on and off, which I have done except when traveling. It's been about 9 months and no issues. I too would rather turn it off to conserve energy, however, Chris assured me that the mini was designed to be left on and then when accounting for the energy needed to warm from cold relative to maintaining its running temperature, the energy use is negligible. Not sure if that's 100% accurate, but that's what I'm going with until I learn otherwise.
Thanks! That is the same advice I got from Chris. For now I will keep running it 24/7. BTW, does yours get hot to the touch on the top and sides due to being left on? In general though my thoughts are that there is a lot of discussion about periodic maintenance and best practices for the LMLM but I think sometimes people overthink things, and/or just have lots of time on their hands to tinker. For me, I am going to continue to due a weekly backflush, flow rate test, and cleaning of the portafilter, screen, etc., as well as daily cleaning of the portafilter and basket. If something breaks, I will worry about it then and possibly re-evaluate how to maintain going forward.
Now, if I can just get my hands on a Monolith next release, .....
Anyway, thanks for the response.

pcrussell50

#5: Post by pcrussell50 » Sep 02, 2019, 2:31 pm

BoulderMike wrote: Now, if I can just get my hands on a Monolith next release, .....
Anyway, thanks for the response.
A Monolith Conical will be both a great match to an LMLM AND significantly easier to get than a Flat. With an LMLM, you won't need to sweat the hassle of getting a Monolith Flat since you don't have programmable pre infusion or flow control anyway.

-Peter
LMWDP #553

RikC

#6: Post by RikC » Sep 03, 2019, 2:30 am

Jasper_8137 wrote:I've had my LMLM for about 18 months now. The first 9 months or so I used a timer to cycle it on in the mornings. I then had my vacuum breaker fail. I was disappointed that it went out so quickly (I had a Rancilio Epoca that was probably 10 years old without any issues) but LM quickly had a tech come out and replace it as it was under warranty. Chris recommended that I keep it on 24/7 to prevent wear from cycling on and off, which I have done except when traveling. It's been about 9 months and no issues. I too would rather turn it off to conserve energy, however, Chris assured me that the mini was designed to be left on and then when accounting for the energy needed to warm from cold relative to maintaining its running temperature, the energy use is negligible. Not sure if that's 100% accurate, but that's what I'm going with until I learn otherwise.
Haha, well the energy use of the mini is definitely -not- neglible. I've measured it with a kWh meter and using interpolating I can conclude thats it's more then 1000-1200 kWh annually when you leave it on 24/7. Or about the typical annual electricity use of a small appartment (non-AC) where I live :o.

However, I've also measured how much it consumes heating up. And the conclusion then is that it makes little sense to turn it on and off daily. So I tend to switch leave it on for at least two days at a time typically. Good for me because I'm not home every day of the week currently.

shadowzenith

#7: Post by shadowzenith » Sep 03, 2019, 5:04 am

I've been turning on and off my LMLM every single day (not leaving it on 24/7) for more than 2 years now.
So far no problems whatsoever. :D

User avatar
HB
Admin

#8: Post by HB » Sep 03, 2019, 8:41 am

BoulderMike wrote:For me, I use it daily in the morning, and leave it on 24/7. I only do this because the last advice I got from Chris was to do this to prevent issues with the boiler, etc. Others seem to have gotten different advice.
This topic comes up with regularity. Below is an excerpt of my most recent reply with links to prior discussions:
HB wrote:This debate has raged on for the last 12+ years of this site's existence. Leave it on, or turn it off? is from the FAQ. Leaving a Prosumer HX Espresso Machine On CAN SAVE ENERGY was an interesting review of the subject. According to Do you leave your espresso machine on all the time?, less than 30% of members leave their espresso machines on.

My rule of thumb: Power down if it won't be used in the next 4 hours.
Dick offers an interesting observation in How many hours per day an espresso machine can be idle?
Peppersass wrote:Glad to see someone else sleeps better with the machine off. In fact, I have mine on only about four hours a day, which is my coffee drinking window.

I happen to have a whole-house energy monitor that records usage on every circuit. When I kept my espresso machine on for 16 hours a day it was the third largest consumer of electricity in the house (behind the entertainment center plasma TV / class-A amps, and my large desktop computer.)
For what it's worth, I don't run any of my espresso machines 24/7 and I've never had any issues. Maybe I'm just lucky? :?:
Dan Kehn

BoulderMike

#9: Post by BoulderMike » Sep 03, 2019, 9:51 am

HB wrote:This topic comes up with regularity. Below is an excerpt of my most recent reply with links to prior discussions:


Dick offers an interesting observation in How many hours per day an espresso machine can be idle?


For what it's worth, I don't run any of my espresso machines 24/7 and I've never had any issues. Maybe I'm just lucky? :?:
Thanks for the reply and for your interest in helping out on this issue. I am completely confused and torn as to what is best. I can't understand why LM doesn't have a definitive answer for the LMLM. Just curious, for the 30% statistic on users leaving the machines on; is there any distinction between commercial "like" machines like the LMLM, and Prosumer like the Synchronika, Bianca, etc.? If the 30% is for people with the LMLM, or other similar machines, that says something different than if it is for all Prosumer and Commercial Home Machines. Looks like you have a LM Strada which I believe is a commercial machine. And, if I read correctly, you turn it on and off. Based on your comments I lean towards turning it on and off, but then I worry that I might cause issues by not following the advice of LM. I am thinking maybe I switch to doing espresso with the LMLM one day, turn it off, make pour over the next day, then the following day turn it back on and make espresso, then repeat this cycle. In general I just don't want to cause problems as a primary reason for buying the LMLM was low maintenance. Thanks as always for the HB site, and for your interest in chiming in when topics are repetitive, or just in need of moderation. I appreciate it.

sluflyer06

#10: Post by sluflyer06 » Sep 03, 2019, 10:20 am

Jasper_8137 wrote:I've had my LMLM for about 18 months now. I too would rather turn it off to conserve energy, however, Chris assured me that the mini was designed to be left on and then when accounting for the energy needed to warm from cold relative to maintaining its running temperature, the energy use is negligible. Not sure if that's 100% accurate, but that's what I'm going with until I learn otherwise.
FWIW I've tested my idle consumption, it's been a little while but I believe it uses around 250 Watts per hour. So that's 6kWh a day if you leave it on, depending on your electricity costs it could be as cheap as where I live and be about 50 cents a day, or double to triple that. For a single appliance, it's fairly significant, but might be in the noise if you have a large home.