La Marzocco Linea Mini - Follow up question on leaving on 24/7 - Page 5

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HB
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#41: Post by HB » Sep 05, 2019, 6:44 pm

ben8jam wrote:Do you think coffeeshops are turning their machines off everyday at night? The LaM Mini has basically the same components inside.
The Linea Mini boiler, according to specifications I found online, is a mere six ounces. You're right that like its larger cousins, the steam boiler is huge, having a volume of 3.5 liters. They do share a lot of common parts, but given the premium materials (and cost!), I hope that means it's more resistant to "misuse", not less.
nuketopia wrote:It was designed for the home.
So true! The first clue was the name of their website dedicated to this line, La Marzocco Home. :lol:

Back closer to the main point of this thread, we should keep in mind that apart from the electronics board, espresso machines are simple machines. It's probably true that running one 24/7 could reduce maintenance issues, much like a car driven nothing but highway miles outlasts one that does short distances 10x a day. But I think no mechanic would suggest leaving the latter car idling in the garage to reduce service costs.
Dan Kehn

ben8jam

#42: Post by ben8jam » Sep 05, 2019, 7:05 pm

I'm glad that everyone is drawing their own conclusions based on the name of a machine (which is based on brand identity) and the fact that it heats up quickly. Nuke i love you man, but the heat up time has nothing to do with whether or not something was intended to be left on or not, or if it CAN be left on or not. Correlation is not causation.

BUT the point of this thread, and all the similar other ones, are people want to know IF the machine CAN be left on 24/7 and if it's going to hurt anything. And yes it can. And no it won't. There is 100% no question about that. More than 24, turn it off. Less than 24 leave it on. Why does everyone not trust the tech who does this for a living?

Heating and cooling parts over and over that were intended not to be heated and cooled over and over unnecessarily IS going to shorten their life. Hot metal doesn't just go bad and break. What is the concern over things being hot? Do you run out and unplug your water heater too out of concern it's going to wear out faster?

You don't see the cheaper brands advocating 24/7. Profitec actually says DO NOT leave on 24/7.

Leave it on 24/7. It's not going to damage anything. It was intended for that.

Why do all these threads have to so far off the rails when the answers are just so simple.

BoulderMike

#43: Post by BoulderMike » replying to ben8jam » Sep 05, 2019, 7:29 pm

As the original poster I can say you are incorrect on a couple of points, but I don't dispute your logic in general. Specifically, you say the point of the thread is to know if the machine CAN be left on 24/7. That was not my point or question at all. I really prefer not to leave it on and was asking for LMLM owners perspective and experiences as to the results of their (a) running the LMLM 24/7, or (b) turning on and off. I am really trying to find out if I HAVE to leave it on 24/7. Since there is no definitive answer, I want to understand better what people have experienced. If most of the people turning the machine on and off have experienced higher maintenance issues and cost, that is a piece of information that I find valuable. If people leaving the machine on 24/7 are not experiencing issues, that is also valuable information.

As to the water heater, they are insulated in a way where they are not hot to the touch. My LMLM gets VERY hot to the touch when left on 24/7. Seems that if it was truly meant to be left on 24/7, and that isn't an issue for the internals, they would have at least insulated the machine and designed it in a way that had the outside shell cool to the touch, like a water heater. Again, not a definitive piece of data, but one that is at least informative in my opinion.

Again, I can't argue with your logic, and you are correctly quoting what Chris said to you, me and others. But, others have also heard different opinions from LM. I don't know if those different opinions were from Chris or someone else there, but others have clearly stated that LM has told them something different than what Chris has told you and me.

Finally, I agree that correlation is not causation, but one would think that in machine design there would be consistency in terms of hardware and/or software design, and functionality.

Anyway, I (and I hope others) appreciate your input. I was hoping for a discussion and I got one.

ben8jam

#44: Post by ben8jam » Sep 05, 2019, 10:58 pm

BoulderMike wrote: I am really trying to find out if I HAVE to leave it on 24/7.
Ah! Well then, in that case. No. You don't have to. By the end of four pages I obviously ended up on the wrong side of that one.

:mrgreen:

nuketopia

#45: Post by nuketopia » Sep 06, 2019, 3:28 am

ben8jam wrote:I'm glad that everyone is drawing their own conclusions based on the name of a machine (which is based on brand identity) and the fact that it heats up quickly. Nuke i love you man, but the heat up time has nothing to do with whether or not something was intended to be left on or not, or if it CAN be left on or not. Correlation is not causation.
It was designed to heat up quickly, where as the GS/3 was not.

Being that I've designed a fair share of things in my career, I'd say that designing an appliance like this to go from cold to operating quickly, would definitely be something I'd design in something for the consumer home, that gets turned off every day.

Commercial equipment probably stays on 24/7 or at most, cycled once a day.
ben8jam wrote:Why does everyone not trust the tech who does this for a living?
Well, mostly because he doesn't live in my kitchen nor pay my power bills. :)

And - while I spent a good number of my formative years as a tech, and I can sling solder with the best of them, techs aren't usually part of the design process, which is what engineers do, usually at the behest of product managers, who research and spec things out. I've done both, tech and design engineering. Techs aren't always in the know on some things. I used to gripe about design engineers all the time when I was doing tech work. Until I sat in that chair for a few years, then my perspective changed.

Look if you want to leave it on 24/7, I don't think you'll hurt it anymore than if you turn it on and off once a day. Probably not as good an idea to turn it on and off a bunch of times a day though.

Or just use it as you desire. On and off once a day, or on all the time. There's nothing in there you can't replace if it breaks.

User avatar
HB
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#46: Post by HB » Sep 06, 2019, 10:01 am

Interesting discussion!

If espresso machine owners are really concerned about long term reliability, consider an electrical surge protector since the electronics board is expensive and vulnerable. If the machine is plumbed, add flood mitigation to the list.
Dan Kehn

pcrussell50

#47: Post by pcrussell50 » Sep 06, 2019, 10:39 am

Definitely interesting.

Seems like a fair few of us are into cars. Well, cars are the the epitome of thermal cycling, with more frequent, and greater temperatures than espresso machines. And they eventually tend to leak, too. Modern sealing schemes using complex o-ring rigs seem to be more tolerant of heat cycling and tend to leak less frequently than the old school paper gasket sealing schemes. Modern elastomers versus old paper and crush washers.

I wonder to what extent espresso machines are stuck in old school tradition when it comes to sealing schemes? Are they as modern as they can be? Or stuck in a rut of tradition?

-Peter
LMWDP #553

TheMadTamper

#48: Post by TheMadTamper » Sep 16, 2019, 10:50 am

I don't own an LMLM but I still find the discussion interesting. The LMLM seems to have become the go-to machine for mobile/catering users.....and it is most definitely not left on 24/7 but is instead constantly turned off and moved around from place to place. I can't imagine that's a terribly harmful way to use it.

Similarly, if you search back some years, you can see a lot of posts on the forum regarding Cimbali M21 from years back with many similar statements about "it's a machine designed to be left on 24/7, that's really how it's meant to be used, most commercial machines are.... etc. etc. " It was a mantra a few posters had written about. I'd discovered and considered all that when I was buying my M21. Meanwhile, Section 1(!) of the owners manual discusses beginning of business day startup and end of business day shutdown procedure. La Cimbali clearly intends that machine to be shut down overnight. That's why they start the manual with the daily power up and power down process, despite the folk wisdom that it's supposed to be run 24/7 "like all commercial machines."

Additionally a lot of the big fancy computerized touch screen WiFi/Bluetooth $40k machines coming out have built in timers for the cafe to automatically power down and up during unoccupied hours. I can't say for LMLM specifically but I'm not sure "24/7" is really a hard and fast rule even for commercial. With the most current computerized multi-group machines, I'd almost say 24/7 would be the exception rather than the rule, with a greater focus on energy saving and accident prevention.