pcrussell50 wrote:I might be wrong, but I don't think Brita pitchers remove scale, (calcium and magnesium carbonates).

Brita filters do remove some scale (calcium and magnesium carbonates) from water. In my experience it's about half when the filters are newer and declines as they reach the end of their usable life. It's not a great solution for softening if you have really hard water, but if your water is already on the soft side it will help a bit.

Interesting. What softening medium do they use? Traditional Ion exchange through resin beads? Or something else?

-Peter

I formulate my own water. I use a Soda Stream to carbonate water, add calcium carbonate, which forms calcium bicarbonate. I use this concentrated fizzy mineral water to blend with RO water to reach the desired hardness level to fill the LMLM.

My tap water is high in chlorides, so not suitable even when diluted with RO water.

No scale problems here.

pcrussell50 wrote: What softening medium do they use? Traditional Ion exchange through resin beads? Or something else?

It's proprietary and may change, but tests of the Brita pitcher filters indicate that their resin beads are weak acid cation (WAC), aka decarbonizing resins (which exchange H⁺ ions for Ca²⁺ and Mg²⁺ ions). The alkalinity drops along with the hardness and the pH drops a little. Traditional strong acid cation softening resins exchange either Na⁺ or K⁺ ions for the hardness ions, and reduce general hardness but not alkalinity.

I think all carbon pitcher filters nowadays include some ion exchange resins. At one time SOMA filters were simple activated carbon but I see that they now include ion exchange resins, perhaps to meet NSF 53 requirements.

pcrussell50 wrote:Interesting. What softening medium do they use? Traditional Ion exchange through resin beads? Or something else?

Yes, they have an ion exchange resin and carbon filtration.

BoulderMike wrote:What sort of bothers me is that for a $5K machine, La Marzocco can't give it's owners a definitive answer.

Four pages of answers - has anyone actually spoken to LaM Home techs?

Chris at LaM Seattle has said without a question of a doubt: if you use it once every 24hrs - leave it on, if you plan to let it sit idle for more than that - turn it off. This is bc idle too long and it builds up scale leading to blockage leading to problems, but it's better to leave it on than to turn it off and on everyday.

It IS better to leave it on. You WILL wear out the seals quicker turning it on and off. It's not intended to be turned off and on just like the bigger version. They are quite happy to be hot all the time. It's how they were designed. Enjoy the fact that you machine never has to heat up.

Open and shut easy peasy. It's a mostly commercial machine and intended to be left on all the time.

ben8jam wrote:Four pages of answers - has anyone actually spoken to LaM Home techs?

Dave at LaM Seattle has said without a question of a doubt: if you use it once every 24hrs - leave it on, if you plan to let it sit idle for more than that - turn it off. This is bc idle too long and it builds up scale leading to blockage leading to problems, but it's better to leave it on than to turn it off and on everyday.

It IS better to leave it on. You WILL wear out the seals quicker turning it on and off. It's not intended to be turned off and on just like the bigger version. They are quite happy to be hot all the time. It's how they were designed. Enjoy the fact that you machine never has to heat up.

Open and shut easy peasy. It's a mostly commercial machine and intended to be left on all the time.

I think the problem is exactly this kind of hearsay post. They are on record as having said both things and if they feel so strongly they should make that very clear in the manual and on the website. They don't, so it raises questions for owners.

drown wrote:I think the problem is exactly this kind of hearsay post. They are on record as having said both things and if they feel so strongly they should make that very clear in the manual and on the website. They don't, so it raises questions for owners.

It's not hearsay if you name the person you spoke to at the company. I'm sure Chris, would be happy to repeat the same to anyone:

First time I ask when I had just bought the machine:

Leaving your machine on 24/7 is absolutely fine. The machine is designed to be run this way. However, if you anticipate not using the machine for more than a day, I would shut it down during that time. Leaving a machine on, but not used, will result in increased scaling, and can cause a flow restrictor blockage (which will stop the flow out of your group).

And then a year later I had asked again in a follow up conversion:

Even with good water however, something to look out for is to not leave your machine on when the machine is not going to be used. What I mean is, the machine can be left on 24/7, as long as it's being used every day. Often, folks will go away for the weekend, leave their machine on, and then come home to a gigleur clog. This is a risk with any espresso machine with a saturated boiler due to the chemical changes that can occur with water as it sits at a high temperature under pressure. The Linea Mini is a bit more sensitive to this phenomenon because of its small brew boiler. As long as you're using it every day however, this is rarely a problem.

I'd ask whomever is saying LaM has said the opposite, to quote them, otherwise yes you are spreading hearsay yourself.

Do you think coffeeshops are turning their machines off everyday at night? The LaM Mini has basically the same components inside.

It was designed for the home. One of its big selling features is time from cold to pulling a shot is under 10 minutes.

No other machine in LM's product line heats this quickly.

Why on earth would they design it with quick to use from cold capability, if it really needed to be on 24/7.

Thermal cycles do stress things, but so does leaving equipment hot all the time.

I'd call it a wash. My electric bill and summer kitchen comfort appreciate turning it off when not in use. Do as you wish. There is no written statement in the manual calling for continuous operation.