After over 7 years of great service, my 2008-vintage GS3 has decided to take a little vacation. Basically, I made 2 cappas last week, turned the machine off, turned it back on an hour or so later, and could not get water out of the group or tea spout. Sadly, I do not remember what the coffee boiler gauge was reading at the time. I usually always check it before pulling a shot, but I have no recollection whether i did so or not.

I made sure the keypad worked by going through the menu system; all of the buttons worked fine. I also checked around for a loose electrical connection, but there were no issues. I had been experiencing excessive leakage out of the vacuum breaker valve and some dripping out of the group head, but there was no noticable increase prior to the boiler/ pressure issue.

After searching around a bit on H-B, I narrowed in on the solenoid coil and gigleur. I pulled the internal group tube and tried running a wire through the orafices. I did this without unscrewing the gigleur and the wire was pretty flimsy, so I was unsuccessful in getting it to pass through, but I did wiggle it around a bit. So I ordered a new coil and gigleur, along with a new vacuum breaker valve and group head gaskets.

While installing the new parts I made the mistake of pulling the o-ring off the internal group tube, and wa sunable to get it back on. But it looked like it needed to be seated at the far end of the threaded hole leading into the boiler head. I put it in place as best I could and reinstalled everything else. When I turned the machine on and it came up to temp, the coffee boiler gauge got up to ~3-4 bars. I tried pulling a water came out of the group head for a couple seconds, and the pressure went to zero. It quickly built back up to 3-4, and I had the same result. I then activated the tea/ hot water spout, and after a couple seconds pressure went to zero and it clicked back off.

I disassembled again, and the o-ring had been caught up in the threads and torn up a bit. I tried reseating the o-ring and reassembled, and this time the coffee boiler pressure stayed at zero. (please note the steam boiler acheieved and held proper pressure the whole time every time I turned on and warmed up the machine)

So it was time for a second overnight-shipment order of parts, 'cause both the wife and I get cranky in the morning when we don't have good cappas... I picked up a few o-rings so I would have a margin for error. I also picked up a bunch of copper washers so I can address a handful of miscellaneoius leaks at the steam boilers at a later date.

I was able to properly seat the o-ring this time. I reassembled, turned on the machine, and again the coffee boiler pressure remained at zero. I pulled everything apart again, removed the (new) gigleur, ran wire through the gigleur and main tube, descaled the tube, etc. It was clean as possible inside and out, and the gigleur seems to screw in just fine. I did not use anything on the threads, although earlier in the week when I first did the repalcement I did use some tape on part of the threads. This time I also reseated the red gasket between coil and the 3-way valve by placing it onto the coil before pushing the coil into place. But sadly I have wound up with the same no-pressure-in-coffee-boiler issue.

Also hand-in-hand with the no-pressure issue is a lack of water in the group head and tube. On some of my attempts earlier in the week and little water was in the group head and/ or tube, but the last couple of tries they have been dry. The coffee boiler has gotten hot pretty quick though, as well as the line between the steam boiler and coffee boiler. The group head stays cool for a while, but over time gets hot -- which I suspect is just thermal transfer from the boiler.

Is it possible the new coil went kaput after the one reassembly where pressure built to 3-4 bar? Is there a way to test the coil that a non-electrical person can follow and implement using a regular multi-meter? Are there electrical connections I should be checking upsteam? (and if so, how?) Is there something along the plumbing that can be an issue? It *seems* the coffee boiler is fine because it gets hot about as quickly as the steam boiler, but is it possible it is just filled with some low-pressure steam and not haot water?

I searched around quite a bit on the forum over the last week and could not find much beyond discussions about the coil and gigleur. Any help/ suggestions are highly appreciated.

Thanks,
David

Is your machine plumbed in or reservoir? Does the pump turn on when you brew?
Steam tank build pressure?

If you want some electrical connections and wire to test the brew solenoid valve, I can easily loan you those. Phone 301-587-5033.

If the pump runs when you hit the brew button, you should see loads of pressure within the brew boiler - ~9.0 bar. Yes or No ??
If you have no pressure in the brew boiler, then the pump is not running or the hydraulic circuitry between the pump and brew boiler is either clogged (doubtful) or a check valve has failed shut.

See the GS/3 hydraulics here: /downloads/ ... aulics.pdf

See below what I wrote but having reread your description (prior to posting) here is what I am thinking of now:

Neither hot water spout nor group work. You never said if they "clicked" or not (the sound that they make as they open/close). If they indeed "clicked" my guess is you have water blockage somewhere either on the inlet, or in the pipe between the pump and the hot water mixer (the mixer is where you adjust the tea water temp). If you are using the reservoir, it can also mean the pump isn't working (as it will supply working pressure to both solenoids).

If it doesn't click - I don't believe both solenoids would fail simultaneously. Hence it is likely to be the main controller board (the "brain") so turn off your machine and disconnect power. The 3-way and team water solenoids are both controlled by relays located on the main board (the "brain"). Water under the brain can result in any number of weird behaviors, prior to the 500$ board being destroyed.

Especially if you had experienced issues with leaks it is very likely water got wicked into the box via the cable harness and ended up pooling under the board. It will not dry by itself -you'll have to dry it manually. It is a good opportunity to apply the LM fix - drill many holes in the plastic box under the board, so water won't pool.

The only thing I am having trouble explaining is the manometer reading. As the boiler heats, the pressure in the boiler should increase. Did you bleed the group after working on the machine?

As for your questions:
1. You can test the coil using a DMM - set it on ohms and check for resistance. I don't know what the reading would be, but anything from a few hundreds to a few kohms would be my guess. Anything over a meg is an open coil and zero is a short... obviously

My original answer:

The pressure manometer is connected directly to the brew boiler.

So the gicleur, which is located Downstream from the manometer should have no effect on the manometer -
Hence - if in fact, the Gicleur was obstructed - the manometer should have registered an increase in pressure as water expanded (as it warmed up) or the pump was engaged.

If the manometer shows zero, then:
1. it may be faulty (not unlikely!) or
2. water is either not entering the boiler or
3. the boiler is leaking so badly that the pressure is fully relieved (puddle under the machine).

As for the options:

1. For the manometer to be faulty all needs to happen is the needle has to become loose on the spindle. It happened to me as well as few others here (with 2008-2009 machines). I used cyanoacrylate on mine to affix the needle to the spindle inside the manometer.

2. I can't see this happening. A check valve getting stuck closed? perhaps, but unlikely.

3. Make sure the machine is dry and find the leaks. Leaks can damage the controller board which is expensive. It may be a good time to drill the bottom of the plastic box under the board so that water can't aggregate and pool under the PCB.

The vacuum breaker is irrelevant to brewing but can leak water into the controller box and destroy your controller. That is a 500$ part.

Thank you very much for the replies.

I left the machine on overnight, and this morning there was ~4 bars of pressure showing on the coffee boiler. I cracked the bleed screw on the group head and water seeped out, so at least some water has entered the brew head.

I did not mention it in my initial post, but I removed the cover from the electronics tray last week and it was dry inside. I did not see any evidence of leaks into the box, either. I will pull it and check again today though, as some water flowed out of the 3-way valve opening in the group head during one of the earlier disassemblies last week.

I had water pool under the machine a couple times earlier in the year, but not since I rebuilt the steam wand valve. The other steam boiler leaks pretty minor, and mainly consist of some mineral deposits around some of the copper washers. There is no steady hissing or anything that indicates to me a substantial leak, and the steam boiler pressure is staying around 1.2 bars.

The pump does kick on for a few seconds once every couple of hours, which seemed to be a topping off of the steam boiler. But the pump does not come on when I hit any of the brew buttons. I was assuming this was due to a switch or safety device that would not allow the pump to run if there was no coffee boiler pressure, but based on the replies above I'm guessing this assumption was incorrect?

Thanks again for the info.

The pump does kick on for a few seconds once every couple of hours, which seemed to be a topping off of the steam boiler.

This is indicative of a leak in the steam boiler. The most common being the vacuum breaker valve but (obviously) there are other potential sources like the heating element gasket.

But the pump does not come on when I hit any of the brew buttons.

This is THE reason for no brew boiler pressure. My initial advice would be to check the electrical connections to the pump as it should be a quick disconnect fitting. You must be plumbed in, i.e. not sourcing water from the reservoir - yes/no ?

Secondly, disconnect any of the power leads from the brew solenoid valve and press a brew button. Do you hear any "click" coming from the control board area?

I'm guessing this assumption was incorrect?

It is incorrect. I'm guessing that the pump (and boiler fill solenoid valve) is powered by a double pole single throw (DPST) relay but Assaf would know more than I.

This thread is a useful cautionary tale of what most consumers should not do when they have a major GS3 failure. These are commercial machines, and major metropolitan areas will have technicians who are experienced in working on them and will either come to your home or let you bring the machine in. I would call LM and ask them to recommend some techs in your area. Then call them before doing any more damage to the machine.

So if the pump is working to fill the boiler it does work and I wouldn't suspect wiring.

There is no specific fail safes on the coffee boiler that would prevent the pump from working - at all.

Your machine is acting crazy. Nothing you describe is a standard 3d5 workflow. The only times I saw the GS3 acting crazy was water under the board - it randomly shorts the logic lines and things work "randomly".

So My hunch is still a wet controller board. That is expensive. You may not see water under the board looking from above into the box. Water is kept in there by capillary action since it is narrow. It will kill your board and is expensive.

I am with Marshall that you are heading into Very Expensive Fix waters and should consider disconnecting it and getting a pro to look at it. If the board is toast - remember they may be fixable (I fixed my board). But get it disconnected ASAP.

erics wrote:This is indicative of a leak in the steam boiler. The most common being the vacuum breaker valve but (obviously) there are other potential sources like the heating element gasket.

This is THE reason for no brew boiler pressure. My initial advice would be to check the electrical connections to the pump as it should be a quick disconnect fitting. You must be plumbed in, i.e. not sourcing water from the reservoir - yes/no ?

Secondly, disconnect any of the power leads from the brew solenoid valve and press a brew button. Do you hear any "click" coming from the control board area?

It is incorrect. I'm guessing that the pump (and boiler fill solenoid valve) is powered by a double pole single throw (DPST) relay but Assaf would know more than I.

It is a DPDT relay, but I think they have it wired in as SPST. I guess thank makes proper grounding even more critical for safe (if not good) espresso....

It is a DPDT relay, but I think they have it wired in as SPST. I guess thank makes proper grounding even more critical for safe (if not good) espresso....

If it is wired as a single pole, single throw (SPST), how do both the pump and brew solenoid get powered simultaneously? A relay for each?

And certainly I agree with you as regards the electrical connections to the pump. If the pump runs to fill the steam boiler, that circuitry and its parts are OK (the pump and motor in particular).