Have a look at the attached. David Likes Coffee claims that even 90 seconds or less from when you finish grinding to when you begin the brew process robs your coffee of flavor... and of the CO2 that creates lively crema. I'm fascinated. My next cup I will flush while grinding, then simply shake the basket to level it prior to tamping. Won't WDT because that process aerates the grinds, and extends the time from grind to brew.

But obviously, with a large boiler (or any tech that provides correct temperature instantly) I would not need to temp-surf - and therefore, my current workflow that accommodates both that and WDT would be a bit shorter. I'll have to think on this lol

Don't believe everything you see on the internet. Ya.. this was real.

Reminds me of a cousin who insisted that corn must cooking in boiling water within 5 minutes after it's picked - he would get the water to a boil and then pick the corn....

jgood wrote:Reminds me of a cousin who insisted that corn must cooking in boiling water within 5 minutes after it's picked - he would get the water to a boil and then pick the corn....

Randy G. wrote:Don't believe everything you see on the internet. Ya.. this was real.

well... there are enough folks in the world who say that if you can't prove their belief false, the belief must be true!

Anyway, I'm not one to believe either way. I prefer to test. Won't do that til the weekend, but it should be interesting. Or not.

Reminds me of a Newt Gingrigrich interview where he was asked what is the truth. His answer was not the facts but something like what you can get people to believe, that's the truth. The interviewer did a double take.

So I tried it on my return-from-work espresso this evening. Mr.David just might be onto something! The crema was indeed more prevalent, and more persistent than usual.

And when you think on it, there's no inherent reason his hypothesis would be wrong. Intact whole roasted beans out-gas to the point that, after a few weeks, they become stale. And that's with just one surface, with almost all of the bean ot directly exposed to air. Now destroy the integrity of that bean, crush it into thousands of tiny exposed bits. Yeah, it could quickly lose the gases that had been trapped inside.

I changed my work flow for this experiment. Ground the coffee, then while doing WDT pulled the 'blind' shot to warm the cup and reduce boiler temp. Sped up WDT a bit... within 20 seconds of finishing the grind, the prepared basket was in the machine and pre-infusing. So I'm going to continue this, see if it improves my experience.

I don't get why he is making a big deal about the crema. Can someone explain it to me please? I might just have miss his point here.
In my experience, if you taste the crema alone it does not taste good at all, and you have to stir your espresso to mix the different extraction layers and to mix up that crema.

Interesting. I'm a bit skeptical, as usual.

I don't think oxidation works that way. You can take a hunk of copper and leave it in the rain. It might take a day or two to turn green. Then you may start over and cut the copper into bits, and leave it out. You will oxidize more copper, because more surface is exposed, but it will still take a day or two to oxidize.

I think we know beans are permeable, which is why we seal them up in between uses, but at what rate? If we believe that small particles are ruined at 90 seconds, doesn't it follow that the entire outside of a whole bean is also ruined with 90 seconds of exposure? And since it is permeable, is the whole bean is ruined at five minutes? Ten minutes?

I do think there something to be said for release of aroma and possibly CO2 immediately after grinding. However I think when you're talking about scrambling to infuse within 30 seconds rather than a leisurely 60 seconds or whatever you usually do, there are probably diminishing returns. Just use them reasonably soon, don't walk away for 30 minutes or something.

Maybe he should change his YouTube name to David Likes Crema.

Personally I found it an interesting taste experiment to scoop off the crema.