sandc wrote:> I assume that original machine controller should retain possibility to turn the pump on
If the original controller would still supply voltage to the pump, phase angle control would have no effect. The original controller must therefore no be connected to the pump anymore. It retains the possibility to turn the pump on - but only through leva!

I understand what you mean. Pump have power supplied only via ITO. Which is not the case now.

sandc wrote:> I think this case is described in the diagram from leva! manual
Not really. Your usage case (running another controller next to leva!) is not in the manuals. leva! is designed to be running the show.

> SNS should get the signal only when Grouphead valve ("Brew switch" in the diagram) is turned on (opened)
Steam boiler refilling wouldn't work if you do that. Valve will be off = No signal to pump at SNS.

Right now steam boiler refilling IS working because pump is still powered by original controller.
However I was wrong previously saying that in case "hot water" switch is activated, pump is activated as well. As tested, it is activated to refill boiler only - no matter if I was using steam or draining some water from steam boiler.
Anyway, I still need to maintain the possibility to turn pump when steam boiler has to be refilled.
As I see from the forum, @blondica73 has La Spaziale and somehow managed to find a solution.

sandc wrote:> Valve is under my control, as described above. I think this won't be an issue.
I don't think you understood the problem. But you will when you get to the pressure test.

What if I connect to SNS port of ITO the Boiler output from controller? (now ITO is controlled by Brew switch output). This way ITO/leva! will do pressure profiling every time pump is on, whether I brew coffee or steam boiler is being refilled. In this case both valves (Grouphead and Hot water) are still controlled by original controller. Yes, steam boiler will be filled up slower if I use long PI time, but who cares

sandc wrote:> if I don't configure anything now, I will still be able to use machine as original, but will have all the measurements via leva! software?
Basically yes. Obviously you must configure some things. Follow the Quick Start chapter in the manual and leave out steps that don't apply to you. You must set SNS to have the PUMP action (if it's not the default), you must configure the pressure sensor, the temperature sensor, the flow meter and maybe some other things.

This is what I have so far. none of the sensors are calibrated. As seen, because my pump performance is quite low, I have PI quite naturally - pressure is ramping up during first 10 seconds. This was, by the way, quite decent shot. I used same coffee, grind and temperature parameters as before the modification.

> still need to maintain the possibility to turn pump when steam boiler has to be refilled

Please re-read #88. It's all there. I don't know how to be clearer than that.

> pump performance is quite low, I have PI quite naturally - pressure is ramping up during first 10 seconds

That's indeed a very slow ramp-up. The concerning part is that it's slow in the middle pressures (being slow below 1bar is normal for vibe pumps). Does this machine have a lot of air in the boiler?! In mine, with Ulka E5 pump, pressure shoots up nearly instantaneously once the fluid system is filled with water, i.e. after 2-6 seconds. That allows tight pressure profiling.

Your pictures show a white flow meter. Do you have that installed in addition to the machine's own flow meter? Flow meters contain a fine nozzle which restricts flow. Having two could be too much. Check your flow rate without portafilter. 450ml/min or higher would be normal.

Has anyone managed to get one of these in the US? I am super interested in doing this to my Silvia but it doesn't look like there is an easy way to get it here.

sandc wrote:> still need to maintain the possibility to turn pump when steam boiler has to be refilled
Please re-read #88. It's all there. I don't know how to be clearer than that.

Yes, I'll follow the instructions, thanks!

sandc wrote: That's indeed a very slow ramp-up. The concerning part is that it's slow in the middle pressures (being slow below 1bar is normal for vibe pumps). Does this machine have a lot of air in the boiler?! In mine, with Ulka E5 pump, pressure shoots up nearly instantaneously once the fluid system is filled with water, i.e. after 2-6 seconds. That allows tight pressure profiling.

That's known fact for La Spaziale. Good shots are approx. 5 sec longer that on the other machines.

sandc wrote:Your pictures show a white flow meter. Do you have that installed in addition to the machine's own flow meter? Flow meters contain a fine nozzle which restricts flow. Having two could be too much. Check your flow rate without portafilter. 450ml/min or higher would be normal.

I'll keep it for now, maybe deinstall alter. Indeed, there is original flow meter installed on high pressure line.
Thanks for suggestion, I'll check flow rate.

Finally I've succeeded and brew excellent shot. It was not so complicated at the end.
Thanks to @sandc

Hello everyone,

I finally received the Jura membrane and realized that they use their own tubing (it looks like they are the Apple of the coffee machine). After waiting for an another for the tubes I finally starting digging into the ITO/Leva process. I think I managed to go pretty far but I now have a few problems:

- Under the pump, originally, the cable connected to the pump overheat protection was connected on the other connector compared to the picture on the manual. See picture of the manual herer https://ibb.co/kJh8KxK I guess it doesn't matter since it is AC powered if I keep the same wiring than in the manual but I wanted to make sure about it.

- Basically now my Rancilio Silvia has this wiring https://ibb.co/w6XhyQX but I am left first with a couple of Faston cables and more importantly the relay sticked on the chassis is not yet connected. I don't really get where I should connect it https://ibb.co/sHXmsDH In this picture it seems I need additional Faston "multiplug" to connect it (in the same fashion than with the pump) but they were not provided in the kit so I am not sure about it.

I will try to write a longer document at the end of the process to help people with this process. It's a very cool project!

Thanks a lot

> since [the pump] is AC powered

Indeed. That said, note that while mirrored installation does not matter, or where the fuse is inserted, it matters very much which leads meet on a certain tab at the pump. Read the manual carefully. You wouldn't be the first one to fry on-board relay #1 because of an incorrect N/L/pump wiring. This is explained in detail in the leva! manual.

> more importantly the relay sticked on the chassis is not yet connected. I don't really get where I should connect it

It's right in the picture you posted? In PID installations, the relay always replaces the brew thermostat. The first step is to unplug the original leads from that thermostat (not the safety thermostat, not the steam thermostat). The just-disconnected plugs are connected to the load side of the relay. The relay shipped with ito has tabs there, so it's a fit, but the original leads are probably too short, so two of the included white FASTON extension leads should be used. These are marked "R" in the image "Leads in ito kit" on p.6 in the leva! manual (projectcaffe.bplaced.net/downloads.html).

> left first with a couple of Faston cables

It's quite possible that you will not need all leads shipped with ito. ito is not a Silvia PID kit but a microcontroller kit.

> I think I managed to go pretty far but I now have a few problems:

You sound a bit unexperienced. Please take the following quote from the leva! manual seriously: INSTALLATIONS ... MAY ONLY BE PERFORMED BY A QUALIFIED PERSON (ELECTRICIAN, ELECTRONICS ENGINEER OR COMPARABLE). IF YOU ARE NOT SUCH A PERSON, GET HELP. THIS IS NOT ELECTRONICS FOR BEGINNERS

> I will try to write a longer document at the end of the process to help people with this process

The installation manual is very detailed and comprehensive ... I recommend people stick with that.

Hello,

Thanks a lot for your answer. I finally red again the manual yesterday and found out that indeed I didn't see that the brew thermostat was not used anymore and therefore leaves these two cables free for connection. I have started to play a bit with the machine and managed to load the firmware and run a few tests. Everything seems ok so far.

About the manual indeed it is very detailed but I kept going back and forth between the pages of the manual. I will try to rearrange a few parts to do a step by step guide for the rancilio Silvia only so that someone would just follow it from top to bottom with pictures on each step.

About me, I am researcher in superconducting quantum computing so I guess the background should be enough. Now that I am towards the end of the process I understand better how a coffee machine work indeed and why every cable is placed where it is. Nevertheless I think many people want to go through it quickly (many people have only one coffee machine like me ) and maybe later get to understand more how it works. That's why I think a dumb step by step manual for a specific machine could be beneficial (and actually bring you more customers).

Anyways congratulations again for this project, this is really nice and mixes a lot of different topics which is always fun.

Best

> I think many people want to go through it quickly

You might be right about that but I wouldn't dumb it down ("connect the read lead to...") to attract inexperienced-with-electronics users and allow them to get through it quickly, without reading much or understanding the circuit. That could lead to somebody getting electrocuted. I think it's necessary to fully understand what you are doing, every single step, when you are dealing with a mains-powered circuit.

Some questions regarding the e61 limitations:
1- can't automatically stop shots based on weight/time on machines that don't have a microswitch. (such as mine, but not a concern).

2- pressure profiling won't represent "pressure at the puck", rather, just line or boiler pressure (same as the manometer does today).
2a----Question? How does the new Vibiemme Domobar Super (for example) which offers pressure profiling with an e61 group overcome this?

3-

This configuration must be used if your machine has an E61 grouphead without electronic valve (lever-operated pump switch drives SNS) OR if another black box controls the pump and leva! shall only add pressure profiling. The pump output of the other controller (phase L) must drive SNS.

3a----Question? Will flow profiling work as intended with the e61 group?

4.

There must be no pressure-reducing components between sensor and the coffee in the filter. No Gicleur jet, no spring-loaded valve under the shower screen, no S11/B valve etc. There must be no other component that regulates pressure in the brew pressure range, specifically no E61 preinfusion chamber

4a----Question? So does that mean no e61 outright? rather than, say it "you can install it but it won't be optimal"?
4b----Question? Has anyone installed the 'ideal' sensor in the ?m6? threaded hole in the e61 group? It'd be ugly but would provide pressure after the springs in the grouphead.(pg.72) Note: whilst the install manual says it should be pre-boiler, it also states that the sensor can handle water up to 120deg C max, with 100deg C considered an acceptable limit. Therefore grouphead temperature water would be within the acceptable limit.

5-Requirement for pump function

Solenoid valve (110-240V~/50-60hz) to open the boiler or thermoblock to the grouphead.

5a----Question? In the config guide it appears this can be overcome, see question 3.

Misc.
6- Leva! supports digital TSic306 sensors.
6a----Question? Can a PT100 RTD (already mounted immersed in boiler, rather than external to boiler) be used with an ADC such as https://www.adafruit.com/product/3328 ? (as Leva! isn't open source I can't exactly check) - or can the ADC header that's used for the paddle be used?

7- My understanding is that the screen and rotary encoder can't be run on extended wires outside of the case (a shame, as they could sit atop the chassis in a 3d printed enclosure), meaning one must be prepared to cut the case of the machine to fit them.
7a----Question? If running 'headless' and relying on PC/tablet for control, can the paddle still be used for flow control? Is this on a cable?

8- There are many safety warnings for not operating components outside the enclosure.
8a----Question? Is the reason the screen and rotary enclosure must be installed internally a safety limitation rather than engineering?

Any reference to page number, or quotes are from the beta 2.0 documentation.

Thanks in advance to any questions you can answer, particularly around e61 installation, flow control and 'best efforts' pressure profiling.