ITO/Leva! Controller - Q&A + Experience - Page 9

Need help with equipment usage or want to share your latest discovery?
mashi
Posts: 8
Joined: 4 years ago

#81: Post by mashi »

can i buy ito outside eu ?

Fafou34
Posts: 6
Joined: 3 years ago

#82: Post by Fafou34 »

Hello everyone, I bought the ITO/Leva kit and started to install it until I reached the point of the Jura membrane... Could you tell me if this one for example would fit? https://www.ebay.com/itm/272949156763

Thanks in advance

Fabien

sandc
Posts: 122
Joined: 7 years ago

#83: Post by sandc »

I'm aware of only two types: The one you linked (often called Jura membrane regulator; sells for about 15$) and the Pulsor from QuickMill. The Jura model is for 4mm PTFE tubing, which can be cut to size - a great advantage. It is easily installed via a push-in fitting. The Quickmill Pulsor is more expensive and not as easily installed. It has an G1/8" internal-thread fitting on the output side. This could be used with externally-threaded flex tubing. Which can not be cut to size, so you would have to find an exact match for your situation. I have the Jura model but occasionally see reports that a user's new Jura regulator causes abnormal reduction of flow. QC may be lacking or maybe the flow problem is caused by the user (overtightend at pump).

JRising
Team HB
Posts: 3667
Joined: 5 years ago

#84: Post by JRising »

sandc wrote:occasionally see reports that a user's new Jura regulator causes abnormal reduction of flow. QC may be lacking or maybe the flow problem is caused by the user (overtightend at pump).
The Jura ones clog really easily if any particles get into the orifice. They can be removed and blown out with compressed air blown (blown through backward, from hose outlet to threaded inlet) or just replaced. The Pulsors have a much more forgiving inlet orifice and no flexible membrane inside to be damaged by such a large inlet orifice. The Pulsor is more of a large empty chamber to absorb the pulsations... It is, of course, much bigger, too.

sandc
Posts: 122
Joined: 7 years ago

#85: Post by sandc »

What I have read is that the threads of the Jura regulator's inlet can be "too long" for the threads of the pump and that attempts to screw the regulator fully in will lead to a compression of the inlet and thus choking. That's not my experience and it makes no sense to me. Why would a manufacturer make such a mistake? These are specifically made for such pumps. I wouldn't be surprised if the users who make this claim forgot to order/install the O-Ring between membrane regulator <-> pump or overtightened significantly.

BenH
Posts: 3
Joined: 3 years ago

#86: Post by BenH »

Good luck with the build @Fafou34. I think the Ito looks like a great solution, I'm hoping to pick one up for my Silvia when they next open the order books.

nosenko
Posts: 5
Joined: 2 years ago

#87: Post by nosenko »

So, finally after 1 year in the shed I found time to upgrade my La Spaziale Mini Vivaldi II with ITO/Leva! controller :D
I want already express my gratitude to Dietmar and Leva! team who have spent so much time and developed it. Especially so detailed manuals - never seen them done so professionally! All the hardware installation went smooth and I had all the required components in the set.
I need to start from the final goal - to keep original La Spaziale controls as much as possible. That being said, to use original brew buttons as I'm always using scales and always control weight and brew time manually so finish shot manually (I just find it too much hassle to try to program all the variables and try to adjust them tomorrow, when humidity changed). And I don't need PID functions - only pressure profiling. I think original Spaziale temperature management is good enough.
Below I will attach some photos of installation. Yes, I still need to tidy up everything, but it will show the principle.

Can someone who did the same integration with La Spaziale help me with advice on pump wiring? I assume I got grouphead valve, right? So the connections I've done recently (I haven't started the system with it yet) are not correct?
Next to that - I'd firstly like to play with the system in "measurement" only setup. So no pressure profiling - just reading what machine is originally creating - would that be possible?







Thanks everyone!

sandc
Posts: 122
Joined: 7 years ago

#88: Post by sandc »

> Can someone who did the same integration with La Spaziale help me with advice on pump wiring? I assume I got grouphead valve, right?

Alas no La Spaziale here, all information below is without guarantee of correctness and completeness and I assume absolutely no liability for it. Only use in conjunction with the information in the leva! manuals, your own knowledge and feedback from Mini Vivaldi users. The installation you have in mind - using leva! parallel to another controller - is an abnormal use case which is not covered in the leva! manuals. You will loose almost all features of leva!

1. To get pressure profiling, your machine must have a vibe pump and you must let leva! power it. That means you must disconnect the lead by which your controller turns the pump on - from the pump. Connect this lead (coming from the controller) to ito's SNS clamp instead. leva! can be configured to detect voltage at SNS and interpret that as "pump on" command. In other words, leva! can detect when your controller wants to turn the pump on. leva! will turn the pump on for the controller - and optionally add pressure-profiling. This will only work reliably if the original controller uses a mechanical relay to switch the pump. If it uses a semiconductor, that component might not be able to trigger ito's SNS input (that's an optocoupler, which could be too small of a load for such semiconductors).

2. After disconnecting the original controller's pump lead, you have a free connector at the pump. This must be connected to ito's clamp "1" (output of on-board relay 1). The leva! firmware uses relay 1 to supply the pump. With or without pressure profiling.

3. You should find that the other connector of the pump, so far untouched, is permanently connected to a mains phase (possibly via a Klixon fuse). Let's call that phase "phase N". ito's N clamp must be connected to "phase N", to power ito. You must also power ito's L clamp. Now that you know which of the two mains phases (not counting earth) is "phase N", you know which mains phase is "phase L" and must be connected to ito's L clamp: The other one. Don't get the order of connecting the mains phases to the N/L clamps wrong. The on-board relays will output phase L. If that's wrong for your circuit, you could destroy the on-board relays of ito by a short-circuit current.

4. In your unusual case (secondary controller), the grouphead valve must remain under the control of the original controller, so that that controller can decide what to do with pump pressure, e.g. brew or refill the steam boiler. That means many features of leva! will not work. No leva! feature which requires control of the grouphead valve will work, for example gravimetric dosing with Bluetooth scales (Felicita Arc or Skale 2), quick warm-up programs, pressure test etc.

5. Configure leva! to use the SNS signal as pump switch in the Setup->Contacts menu. I believe that is the default.

6. The leva! firmware starts pressure profiling (if enabled) only after pressure has reached 0,7bar. Below that pressure, it pumps normally. This allows your machine to pump water without pressure profiling when no filter is inserted or when refilling the steam boiler. Details can be configured under Setup->Pressure->Flood->...

7. You will have to install the pressure sensor downstream from the grouphead valve to ensure that pressure profiling will not get in they way of refilling the steam boiler. If you do that, the sensor will read 0bar while the steam boiler is refilled (pump is on but grouphead valve / path to sensor are closed) - 0bar readings disable leva's pressure profiling, as explained in 6. leva! will pump normally. I believe your machine has an installation point for a PI chamber that can be used. The place of installation must be entered under Setup->Sensors->Pressure->Valve.

8. Running the pressure test (to configure pressure profiling, essential step, see tutorial in manual) will be difficult. In normal installations, leva! opens the grouphead valve to release residual pressure before closing it to allow pressurization for the test. That will not be possible in your installation, since that valve is upstream of the sensor (and not under leva's control anyway). You will have to use a blind filter (metal filter, not a leaking rubber filter insert) to close the system and allow pressurization. The filter should be filled with water. You will have to manually relieve residual pressure before the test.

> like to play with the system in "measurement" only setup. So no pressure profiling - just reading what machine is originally creating - would that be possible?

That's the default, no pressure profiling, normal operation. Before you configure and use pressure profiles, you must configure the pump and the control loop or the results would by abysmal. That's explained in a tutorial in the leva! manual.

nosenko
Posts: 5
Joined: 2 years ago

#89: Post by nosenko »

Dietmar, again, thanks for the product you make and your responses, very much appreciated :!:
sandc wrote:I'm not such someone, alas no La Spaziale here, so all information below is without guarantee of correctness and completeness and I assume absolutely no liability for it. Only use in conjunction with the information in the leva! manuals, your own knowledge and feedback from Mini Vivaldi users.
The installation you have in mind - using leva! parallel to another controller - is an abnormal-use case which is not covered in the leva! manuals. You will loose almost all features of leva!
That's true I only intend to use pressure profiling feature of leva!. In my mind La Spaziale covers all other functions in acceptable way and myself being a purist I'd like to continue using La Spaziale buttons.
sandc wrote:1. To get pressure profiling, your Vivaldi must have a vibratory pump and you must let leva! power the pump. That means you must disconnect the lead by which your controller turns the pump on from the contact of the pump. Connect this lead from the controller to ito's SNS clamp instead. leva! can be configured to detect a voltage at the SNS clamp (relative to clamp N) and interpret that as "run the pump" command. In other words, leva! can detect when your controller wants to turn the pump on after you have connected the original controller's 110VAC-240VAC pump output to SNS. It will turn the pump on for the controller - and optionally add pressure-profiling. This will only work reliably if the original controller uses a mechanical relay to switch the pump on or off. If it uses a semiconductor, that component might not be able to trigger ito's SNS input (the SNS input is an optocoupler, which could be too small of a load for such semiconductors).
La Spaziale Mini Vivaldi II is dual boiler machine and has vibratory pump.
As I understand there are 3 modes(ways) of pump turned on:
[1] Coffee brew. In this case Grouphead valve is opened (turned on) and pump is powered
[2] Hot water supply from steam boiler. In this case Valve on steam boiler is opened (turned on) and pump is powered
[3] Steam boiler refill. In this case both valves are closed (turned off) and ONLY pump is powered
sandc wrote:2. I assume the other connector of the pump is permanently connected to a mains phase. Let's call that phase "mains phase N". This is the phase that must be connected to ito's N clamp, too, to power ito. You must also power ito's L clamp. Now that you know which of the two mains phases (not counting earth) must be connect to ito's N clamp, you know which mains phase must be connected to ito's L clamp: The other one. The on-board relays 1 and 2 will output phase L, i.e. the phase connected to clamp L. Don't get the order of connecting the mains phases to the N/L clamps wrong or you will destroy on-board relay 1 of ito by a short-circuit current.

3. You now have one free connector at the pump, after disconnecting the original controller's pump lead. This free connector must be connected to ito's clamp "1" (output of on-board relay 1). The leva! firmware will use clamp 1 as 110V-240VAC output to turn the vibratory pump on - with or without pressure profiling.

4. In your abnormal-use case, the grouphead valve must remain under the control of the original controller, so that that controller can decide what to do with pump pressure, e.g. brew or refill the steam boiler. That means many features of leva! will not work. No leva! feature which requires control of the grouphead valve will work, for example gravimetric dosing with Bluetooth scales (Felicita Arc or Skale 2), quick warm-up programs, pressure test etc.
With the above being said I assume that original machine controller should retain possibility to turn the pump on even if ITO+leva! is not in use (cases [2] and [3])
I think this case is described in the diagram from leva! manual

So, my understanding is, the SNS should get the signal only when Grouphead valve ("Brew switch" in the diagram) is turned on (opened). So I connect SNS to clamp L on machine controller that originally goes to Grouphead valve. Then pump gets power from ITO and not directly from machine controller.
sandc wrote:5. Configure leva! to use the SNS signal as pump switch in the Setup->Contacts menu. I believe that is the default.
Thanks, will do.
sandc wrote:6. The leva! firmware starts pressure profiling (if enabled) once pressure reaches 0,7bar. Below that pressure, it pumps normally. This feature allows your machine to pump water without pressure profiling when no filter is inserted. This feature can be configured under Setup->Pressure->Flood->...
Good to know, thanks
sandc wrote:7. You will have to install the pressure sensor downstream from the grouphead valve to ensure that pressure profiling will not get in they way of refilling the second boiler (steam). If you do that, the sensor will read 0bar while the steam boiler is refilled (pump is on but grouphead valve / path to sensor are closed) - which will disable leva's pressure profiling. I believe your machine has an installation point for a PI chamber that can be used? The place of installation relative to the grouphead valve must be entered under Setup->Sensors->Pressure->Valve.
As shown on my photo in the post above - La Spaziale has a port in Grouphead that was closed by hex bolt. Indeed, it's probably originally intended for PI chamber.
So the pressure sensor is installed there, after the Grouphead valve.
I think this is my case:

sandc wrote:8. Running the pressure test (to configure pressure profiling, an essential step, see tutorial in leva! manual) will be difficult. In normal installations, leva! opens the grouphead valve to release residual boiler pressure before closing that valve to allow pressurization during the test. That will not be possible in your installation, since that valve is upstream of the sensor and not under leva's control. You will have to use a blind filter (metal filter, not a leaking rubber blind filter insert) to close the system and allow pressurization. It should be filled with water. You will have to manually relieve residual pressure before the test. Refer to the leva! Manual.
Valve is under my control, as described above. I think this won't be an issue.
sandc wrote:That's the default, no pressure profiling. Before you configure pressure profiles and select one for use, you must configure the pump and the control loop - or the results would by abysmal. That's explained in a tutorial in the leva! manual.
Does it mean that if I don't configure anything now, I will still be able to use machine as original, but will have all the measurements via leva! software?

Thanks again!

sandc
Posts: 122
Joined: 7 years ago

#90: Post by sandc »

> I assume that original machine controller should retain possibility to turn the pump on

If the original controller supplies voltage to the pump, phase angle control will have no effect. The original controller must therefore not be connected to the pump anymore. It retains the possibility to turn the pump on - through leva!

> SNS should get the signal only when Grouphead valve ("Brew switch" in the diagram) is turned on (opened)

No. Steam boiler refilling wouldn't work if you do that.

> if I don't configure anything now, I will still be able to use machine as original, but will have all the measurements via leva! software?

Basically yes. Obviously you must configure some things. Follow the Quick Start chapter in the manual and leave out steps that don't apply to you. You must set SNS to have the PUMP action (if it's not the default), you must configure the pressure sensor, the temperature sensor, the flow meter and maybe some other things.