bringyoutomyhell wrote:I encourage you to do some real testing with coffee, but I'm sure you'll never need more than 6ml/s,, that's the upper range of the needed flow, it's better being able to go lower when closed IMO

The coffee testing continues tomorrow. At this point I have the paddle set for minimum (left-most position. 3/8 turn off of closed) at 4mL/sec and the max flow in this setting (right-most position 7/8 turns off of closed) 6.6mL/sec


Lelit FCD on Quickmill QM67 All 30 second tests
Below find the flow rates based on the fraction of the turns off of the closed position.
I compared the flow rates with Whole Latte Love's turn/flow chart and 3/8 off of closed matches pretty well, but for the WLL FCD to get to around 6.6mL/sec they need to turn the ball a bit past the full 360° point. The takeaway is that the Lelit ramps up a little faster than the WLL FCD but they are pretty close.

So how much flow do I need on the min and max flow debits? Again, I've never had a machine that was good enough to even measure mL/sec. I guess I'll have to track down the Gaggia at my daughter's house and do a comparison?

Turns mL/30sec mL/sec
0+ Nil
1/4 96 3.2 mL/sec
3/8 120 4 mL/sec
1/2 153 5.1 mL/sec
3/4 186 6.2 mL/sec
7/8 198 6.6 mL/sec
1 216 7.2 mL/sec
1 1/4 231.9 7.73 mL/sec
1 1/2 234 7.8 mL/sec

I think you should check with other Bianca users. This is Lelit's statement "Bianca is set to distribute 100-120 gr in 20 sec. 123gr/25 sec is an acceptable profile and 99.9% of Bianca's users normally use the machine like this. So it's all normal." (from here ). This is a defective one

I just went and checked my Bianca and got 126 g in 20 seconds at full flow. The left extreme of my paddle is set so it just closes the valve completely, and my pump bypass is set for about 7.5 bars max pressure with a blind basket.

So a stock Bianca goes from zero to 6,3ml/sec right? This is what I remember. The flow of VIndinbona1 varies too little, there must be something wrong with the machine IMO

The Bianca is a rotary-pump machine, the QM67 is not. I'm not at all surprised to see differences in the upper range.

There are numerous ways these can be installed "wrong", from what I've read. I'd work with the vendor if there really is a problem.

The OP's chart indicates that 0-5 mL/s is available in 1/2 turn. Also states "The takeaway is that the Lelit ramps up a little faster than the WLL FCD but they are pretty close." Based on that, I'm having a hard time understanding the problem past the choice of knob.

bringyoutomyhell wrote:So a stock Bianca goes from zero to 6,3ml/sec right? This is what I remember. The flow of VIndinbona1 varies too little, there must be something wrong with the machine IMO

by Jeff » Today, 9:32 am
"The Bianca is a rotary-pump machine, the QM67 is not. I'm not at all surprised to see differences in the upper range.
There are numerous ways these can be installed "wrong", from what I've read. I'd work with the vendor if there really is a problem.
The OP's chart indicates that 0-5 mL/s is available in 1/2 turn. Also states "The takeaway is that the Lelit ramps up a little faster than the WLL FCD but they are pretty close." Based on that, I'm having a hard time understanding the problem past the choice of knob."


I'll answer in reverse...
There is nothing wrong with the machine. With a knob instead of a paddle, fully open it can put out almost 8g/sec. Yes, the paddle, or as you put it "choice of knobs" is the issue. THERE IS NO INFORMATION ANYWHERE that I found in all the research I did THAT INDICATES THAT THE SHAFT CAN ROTATE 540° and the paddle restricts the range to 180º. The Lelit/Bianca flow control itself doesn't seem to be that much different than the WLL or the Quick Mill other than the knob/paddle and is quite simliar to the Lucca. I could have saved about $50 had I gone with the Quick Mill version with the short lever knob. At some level it's the fault of my choice, but I can't fully blame myself as I thought I was thorough in my due diligence. With my Gaggia Classic I never considered flow range as it was what it was until I knew it was time to change the pump. [It's at my daughter's house and for giggles I will probably see what it puts out.]

So I have what I have and have to figure out where the best paddle range is for coffee. The numbers are starting to confuse me, but this morning I did a straight shot with the paddle full open, but did a pre-infusion with the chrome handle, then did the rest of the shot open. Not bad. So I marked the shaft of the FCD to 12:00 so I can return to that setting easily if the other taste tests aren't as good. I don't think I'll be playing with profiling recipes just yet.

At this moment I have reset the paddle to have no flow in the left position and have 5.5mL/sec\ 167mL/30sec \ 105mL/20 sec with paddle far right.

In the zero flow->5.6mL/sec range, set to full open, I pulled two shot, just like I did this morning with the Paddle left-3mL/sec
Full paddle right 6.4mL/sec. The first shot I used the same grind as this morning. 37 seconds, so I coursened up the grind and pulled a 24 second shot. Both this mornings and this afternoon's second I'd consider "good" (not gret yet) but different. I think there was only a 1/4 turn difference in the paddle placement. I think I prefer this morning's a bit better. But I think that's where profiling might give it that liittle extra. Even with the questions and issues and comlications, I'm cranking out better stuff than I did with the Gaggia Classic.

I appreciate all the replies as it refers to options that would all put me in the ballpark. I wish I had a better palate for espresso taste. I'm not there yet at all and everything at this point is comparative. I guess in due time. Thanks again for the replies. I'm still open to thoughts and suggestions/advice.

Ok it's clearer now. Maybe you can just buy the ECM little ball, that would be the best to turn it more than now. ECM and Bianca system are different though, if I remember correctly. It's not that one kit equals the others.

For "ideas" about flow control, try downloading the Decent Espresso app https://decentespresso.com/downloads and check and activate the various preset profiles. There are a lot of info to be learnt on curves.

What I know works for dark roasts is a quick peak at 8 bar and then a constant release of pressure

For light roasts it's better a 20 sec preinfusion, once you saturated the puck, then a 6 bar pull (you get higher extraction with lower pressure due to how the puck "compresses").

And yeah, possibilities are endless

NB: Most of the DE profiles in the distribution are poor choices to model after for a variety of reasons. Even on the handful that are "good" profiles, the steps tell little about how they run during a shot.

There are no hard rules. As just one example, light roasts are being pulled with some grinders in under 20 seconds from pump on, including an intentional zero-flow hold.

You can look at public shot records at Visualizer.coffee

bringyoutomyhell wrote:Ok it's clearer now. Maybe you can just buy the ECM little ball, that would be the best to turn it more than now. ECM and Bianca system are different though, if I remember correctly. It's not that one kit equals the others.

For "ideas" about flow control, try downloading the Decent Espresso app https://decentespresso.com/downloads and check and activate the various preset profiles. There are a lot of info to be learnt on curves.

What I know works for dark roasts is a quick peak at 8 bar and then a constant release of pressure

For light roasts it's better a 20 sec preinfusion, once you saturated the puck, then a 6 bar pull (you get higher extraction with lower pressure due to how the puck "compresses").

And yeah, possibilities are endless

I'm not sure that an ECM ball is availble or what the cost would be. I was quoted by the tech department where I bough my QM67 that the Quick Mill knob woud be $90- if the could find a loose one. I could probably buy the whole kit from them at 1/2 off for $112. For testing purpose I think the $10 guiltar knob will due until I can definitively figure out which paddle position works best for me. On evaluation of cofee taste I have returned the paddle to this morning's position and will reevaluate grind which had to be finer for having the setting where the paddle would shut off flow.

I did do a deep dive on comparing my FCD flow vs the speculated Whole Latte Love flow, takien from their published chart on their "recipe" page.