HELP Rocket Appartamento

#1: Post by **geieli** » November 27th, 2020, 10:05 am

Hi, I recently bought a Rocket Appartamento and have some troubles with the machine. When the machine first arrived around 3 months ago there was water leaking out of it. I sent it back and had it repaired by the shop that I bought it from. Now there is no water leaking anymore. However, I noticed that sometimes when I pull an espresso after having pulled one before, the preinfusion doesen't work properly. Sometimes the grouphead stutters and spits some water out but sometimes there is no water at all but only steam coming out from the grouphead. However, sometimes the Preinfusion works just fine even on the second shot. This is my first machine with an E61 grouphead so I am not completely sure if this is normal. Thanks for the help!

#2: Post by **Bluenoser** » November 27th, 2020, 11:58 am

That is not a preinfusion. When you pull 1/2 way, some pressure might force some water into the puck, but that only provides "preinfusion" at line pressure when you have it plumbed in (and usually that means rotary pump, instead of your vibe). So plumbed in you have the water line providing some pressure (not the pump) and that minimal pressure will wet the puck more effectively. Whether that is even 'preinfusion' is some debate.

Some people try to use that "middle" position to pre-wet the puck on vibe pump HX designs (like mine and yours), but I've found it very inconsistent.

I believe the E61 has a bit of preinfusion capability built into its design, by having a chamber that collect some of the water; and the vibe pump ramps up slower than a rotary. Together these give you some preinfusion by just turning the lever up all the way.

I do use that 'middle' position for the last 2 or 3 seconds of the shot because the puck is eroding and I want to reduce the pump pressure.. but even then.. I"m not sure how useful that is.

As long as you lift the lever fully and get the right amount of water (you can weigh the water output for 10 seconds to ensure your pump is working properly) your machine is ok.

November 27th, 2020, 12:11 pm

Hey thanks for the quick reply! I am aware that the Appartamento can't do a proper Preinfusion. However, it is weird that when I am pulling the first shot the function seems to work just fine but on the second one it sometimes gives me this problem. Sometimes there is even no water coming out of the grouphead.

#4: Post by **Jeff** » November 27th, 2020, 12:39 pm

It could be that there's some pressure built up in the HX/brew circuit from heating up. If you don't flush before the shot (to manage temperature, for example), that might release a bit more water on the first shot. Either way, unless you're plumbed in, an E61's "middle position" may cause more problems than benefits as it may just partially wet a few spots on the puck, potentially leading to channeling.

#5: Post by **JRising** » November 27th, 2020, 1:13 pm

geieli wrote:Hey thanks for the quick reply! I am aware that the Appartamento can't do a proper Preinfusion. However, it is weird that when I am pulling the first shot the function seems to work just fine but on the second one it sometimes gives me this problem. Sometimes there is even no water coming out of the grouphead. video

Doing what you're doing and steaming the surface of the coffee in your portafilter is only going to burn it (in my opinion). Does it not ruin it?
If you want to "make use of" the E61's abilities to pre-infuse, you have to make sure you've completed the cooling flush, then with the portafilter in, raise the lever high enough to engage the pump for a couple of seconds before going back to the middle.
It's not ideal, of course, but when the machine isn't plumbed you do what you can.

November 27th, 2020, 1:48 pm

Hi JRising, I only did this for demonstration (and without a portafilter). When I pull a shot I always complete a cooling flush before. Also before I took the video I already pulled a shot. The problem only occurs on the second shot and not on the first one. Would be cool if someone with an Appartamento could check if it's the same for him/her.

#7: Post by **JRising** » November 27th, 2020, 2:13 pm

Okay, I think I misunderstood...
After watching both videos again, there is nothing wrong in either video. That's what a HX is going to do when you open the brew valve. If the water if the HX has risen above boiling point, with no water flowing in to mix, the surface will expand to steam, and some water will be forced out through the group head. if the water in the HX still has not gone above boiling, it isn't going to expant to steam quickly enough to force some water out of the plumbing.

November 27th, 2020, 5:47 pm

Hey sorry but I don't really get what you mean. If I flush the grouphead there seems to be no problem but only when I use the "preinfusion" function. Why should there be no water coming out of the grouphead when the water temperature is too hot but then when I pull the lever completely it works. Again thanks for your help!

December 2nd, 2020, 11:15 am

Sorry I am not sure that I explained the problem well. Here is another video in which I simulated pulling an espresso and then using the "pre-infusion" function afterwards. As you can see there is no water coming out of the group head. Maybe someone else with an Appartamento could try this out? I am kind of in a bad situation because I am not sure whether I have to send the machine back to where I ordered it from.

December 2nd, 2020, 8:09 pm

On your second video, the machine works properly.

It should be noted that it's not called pre infusion for appartamento, but pre wetting. Also, the lever for pre wetting should not be in the half position, but a little bit higher just before the pump would kick in. ( it's between the half position and full on position )

But in the owner manual, they incorrectly show half position as pre infusion... the confusing part is that the manual covers a lot of machines... so nothing should happen in the half position and there is your problem.

Do you backflush sometimes ? With only water once a day or two, and with the correct soap once a week ?

Hope this help.