Hi,

I recently got into espresso/cappuccino, and didn't want to invest too much, so I picked up a second hand Ariete Cafe Roma Deluxe for a bargain price.
The machine was hardly used by previous owner.

The machine came with a pressurized basket, after messing around with the grind I managed to pull a double shot in approximately 25-30 seconds- the machine was fine.

I then got a non-pressurized basket, and after adjusting the grind finer I tried to pull a shot and I could tell that there was quite a bit of pressure being built up when brewing. The problem is that whenever I start brewing now,a stream of water just pours out of the steam wand, which is apparently symptomatic of the boiler overfilling. This never happened with the pressurized basket, even with a relatively fine grind. The double shot will be pulled in the desired time, but I'm not sure how the water coming out of the steam wand will affect the brewing pressure. Is this sub-optimal or merely just an inconvenience?Alternatively, could this just be protection to prevent over pressure ? Is there a way to fix this?

I'm confident the machine can handle fine grinds with non-pressurized baskets, I've found others who have done the same and had good results.
Is there something that I can do to fix this, or should I just have to live with putting a cup under my steam wand when brewing?

Apologies if I've said any extremely nooby things

Probably just a leaking steam valve

I agree that the steam valve must be leaking. But I'm concerned that the water "pours" out. A leaking valve would let any condensed steam come out, but the amount of water should be small. A lot of water coming out would be an indication that the boiler fill sensor is not working and the boiler is filling to the top. What happens when you steam? Do you just get a bunch of water, or do you get dry steam?

Could it be that you simply ground too finely? Can you return to the grind level you used with the pressurized basket and then increment in small steps until you are choking the machine again, then back off from that setting? The leaking may be a symptom of a choked machine, and altering your grind until you find the threshold for that may let you use fine grind without leaking (or repairs).

Nunas wrote:I agree that the steam valve must be leaking. But I'm concerned that the water "pours" out. A leaking valve would let any condensed steam come out, but the amount of water should be small. A lot of water coming out would be an indication that the boiler fill sensor is not working and the boiler is filling to the top. What happens when you steam? Do you just get a bunch of water, or do you get dry steam?

Yes it definitely is a stream of water, not just a trickle, and it lasts for as long as I'm brewing. When I steam I'll get some water initially, I'd say maybe slightly more than one would normally expect, but after that it's pretty much just dry steam. The steam wand does sputter quite a bit as the boiler heats up to steam temp. Once I purge and the the boiler is at steam temp, the sputtering will subside most of the time.

Bret wrote:Could it be that you simply ground too finely? Can you return to the grind level you used with the pressurized basket and then increment in small steps until you are choking the machine again, then back off from that setting? The leaking may be a symptom of a choked machine, and altering your grind until you find the threshold for that may let you use fine grind without leaking (or repairs).

I have tried this, the problem that I have is once I back off the grind I'll get a shot pulled in less than 20 seconds, and there'll still be water coming out of the steam wand. At that point I didn't bother to go any coarser, as I thought my shot would just be pulled in less time. Should I try backing off further anyway, just to see what the result would be like, or is that pointless?

Edit: so I've tried a fine (but too coarse for espresso) grind, what I noticed is that while there isn't a stream of water , there is still water dripping from the the steam wand while brewing, I probably just didn't notice it before, and see it now that I know what I'm looking for. So it seems like water is consistently being pushed through the steam wand when brewing, the finer the grind, the more pressure the water is being pushed with.

Okay, sounds like a definite leak of some sort, which is probably also preventing the pressure from building at the puck as well. I'm not familiar with your machine, but servicing is in order. Whether that can be a DIY approach or a repair facility, hard to say.

No reason to experiment with the grind any further.

Thanks for the assistance, if the boiler fill sensor is not working properly, there might be some limescale buildup, so I'll try to descale first and see how that goes- really hoping that works, but skeptical that could be the entire issue here. I highly doubt that the previous owner even knew that the machine needs to be descaled.

Emm ... which boiler fill sensor ? It seems to be a single boiler machine, no sensors of that kind, boiler fills completely ...

I have a cheap Delonghi machine (though not used for a while now) and steam valve also leaks a bit - even when only under steam pressure when the temperature in the boiler exceeds 100°C ... but interestingly, it doesn't get worse under higher pressure (when brewing)

Not sure anybody is actually repairing machines in this price range

Nunas above referred to a fill sensor,so I assumed there would be one, but as you say, I'm probably mistaken. If I can pinpoint what the problem is, I'll try and see what I can do to fix it myself.