Hi all,

I received a new ecm synchronika today, read through the instructions, and set it up. However, when I went to fill the boilers for the first time the pump didn't take any water from the tank. The instructions said to leave the handle up for at least 30 seconds or so at a time when trying to fill it. I tried this a couple of times and it still didn't take any water. I noticed the machine starting to heat up and I was worried that it was just heating an empty boiler so I shut it off (max temp on the pid probably read about 125C, but I'm not 100% sure as I wasn't paying too close attention to it at the time).

I did some troubleshooting and decided that the pump was probably air locked, so I forced some water into it with a syringe and the pump finally started taking water from the tank. Everything seems to be working now thank goodness, but I am wondering if any damage could have been caused by heating the empty boiler for a minute or two. How long can these elements be on for when the boilers are empty?

Thanks!

I believe that the 120v version of the ECM heating element uses stainless steel, so you're almost certainly okay. (Copper elements are used in some machines and are more fragile.)

As a check, you can plug the machine into a GFCI outlet. If the heating element has been damaged, then the machine will trip the ground fault circuit protection sooner or later.

Dry firing a heating element should be avoided. Don't know about stainless steel elements. One 'trick' is to pull the spade connectors off the heating element before turning an empty machine on. If the boiler is empty and there's a problem with the fill you've stopped the elements from firing. You can fix the fill problem and re-connect the element when the boiler is full.

mrgnomer wrote:Dry firing a heating element should be avoided. Don't know about stainless steel elements. One 'trick' is to pull the spade connectors off the heating element before turning an empty machine on. If the boiler is empty and there's a problem with the fill you've stopped the elements from firing. You can fix the fill problem and re-connect the element when the boiler is full.

+1

That's a really good point and great tip!

My older QM Carola has a two position power switch -- pos 1 just powers the pump, pos 2 powers pump and heating element. So if machine is new or has been sitting empty, one can run the pump, fill the boiler, see the water flow from the group, and then go to position 2. Seems like a fine idea.

Machines should have a dedicated switch or a low water level probe for heating element protection. Some do. My plumbed in E61 HX didn't. I started it up empty once after it sat a while and didn't know the water supply was gummed up. I'm pretty sure the heating element dry fired and that's what burned it out. I'm careful now to pull off the connections on the element before starting an empty boiler machine that doesn't have element protection.

Thanks everyone for the tips everyone! It looks like if I ever need to fill an empty boiler the safe bet is to unplug the heating element first. Obviously the ecm synchronika doesn't have any safety device to prevent firing an empty boiler. Hopefully the pid just shut the element off once the sensor went past the 93C setpoint and the overshoot didn't get anything too hot. I caught it pretty quickly too and probably only had the machine on for about 2 minutes before I noticed that it was starting to heat up.

Anyway, I opened up the machine and there are no external signs of damage. I also drained a little water from the boiler and it looks normal, there are no flakes or anything from any kind of coating on the element or inside of the boiler that could have burned off (I don't think a stainless tank would need any internal coating, and neither would a stainless element if indeed the element is stainless). The machine also seems to be functioning normally, everything heating up as it should and not tripping the gfci, steam working, and pressure and flow normal... Although I haven't gotten a chance to make any coffee with it since the company sent me the wrong grinder and I am still going to have to wait another week or so for the correct one :-/.

Obviously the ecm synchronika doesn't have any safety device to prevent firing an empty boiler.

This statement may be accurate, inasmuch as there may not be a specific device, but, I think it's a bit misleading. I have a Synchronika; although it's been some years since I installed it, I clearly recall that there is a proper initial filling procedure. When followed, the machine knows it is being filled and displays FIL on the PID. My memory is way fuzzy on this, but I'm reasonably confident that the heaters didn't come on until this procedure ended.

Given you bought it new, is there a way of reaching out to a retailer and ask them?

If anything, it should be a good feedback to the shop/manufacturer to actually write detailed and user friendly instructions. I know my machine came with a lengthy manual that was well written and updated.