Heat-up time E61 double boiler vs HX - Page 2

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Peter_SVK

Postby Peter_SVK » Feb 11, 2019, 6:41 pm

Another way how to shorten heat-up time of E61 DB by ca. 10 minutes in urgent cases is to wrap kitchen towel around grouphead for insulation. Sounds silly, but works. :)
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Max1411

Postby Max1411 » Feb 12, 2019, 4:21 am

An extremly effective way in heating up a E61 HX faster is by emptying the whole upper thermosiphon. I know, that sounds weird, but everybody with a grouphead thermometer can messure the huge effect.

1. Let the machine heat up the boiler (around 8min)
2. Open the brew valve without starting the pump (bit more than 45°)
3. Let the thermosiphon drain totally.
4. After 20min, your machine is ready.

After step 3 the group gets heated up by steam of the HX, which heats it up much faster. I measured a higher temperature after 20min than usually after 30min. Before you pull the first shot you need to flush the group first to get the water back in the thermosiphon.

I know it sounds a bit strange, since a TS stall does the exact opposite. But in this case it's a total stall plus a emptied TS tube which lets the steam through and that's not the case when a normal TS stall occurs where water in the upper tube would blocks the path.

DeGaulle

Postby DeGaulle » replying to Max1411 » Feb 13, 2019, 2:09 am

Now there is an interesting thought! It's basically using the line pressure preinfusion option before the TS is fully upto temperature; it should work on HX machines on a reservoir feed, right? Thanks for the tip.

@Peter_SVK: I forgot about the towel option, but you're right.
Bert

Max1411

Postby Max1411 » Feb 13, 2019, 6:01 am

Exactly, it should work on all reservoir machines or with those that don't let line pressure through at the 45° angle because of an additional solenoid valve like the Rockets.

It's important to drain long enough to clear the upper tubing, otherwise you just get a TS stall which does the opposite. It works on a fully heated up machine as well, just doesn't make much sense then. My Appartamento idles for example at 96°C, with the emptied upper TS at around 105°.

The sooner you clear the TS, the faster the machine will heat up, but I think it won't work right after turning the machine on, because you need some flow/ a bit of pressure in the TS first, to drain the TS. That's why I mentioned step 1.

We (german forum) tried that with the HX in my Appartamento and an older ECM with a horizontal HX, it worked on both. I don't know how it works with those machines having a immersion tubing at the HX outlet like the newer ECMs and Profitecs.

So if you are really in a hurry, that method will help. I personally almost don't need it, since I use a app controlled plug socket or let the machine idle if I know I need my next drink within x minutes/hours.

Peter_SVK

Postby Peter_SVK » Feb 13, 2019, 6:57 am

Can you recommend that app controlled plug socket? Is it also remote controlled through internet? I use timer socket by now.

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homeburrero
Team HB

Postby homeburrero » Feb 13, 2019, 5:27 pm

Max1411 wrote:An extremly effective way in heating up a E61 HX faster is by emptying the whole upper thermosiphon.

I've used Max's method at times to get a rapid heating in my old ECM Giotto and newer Rocket Evo. Beware, It can get the group really hot! - I've gotten as high as 220F on the grouphead thermometer on a machine that normally idles at around 203F.

I've toyed with it as a way to get faster temp rebound after pulling shots in succession but haven't perfected it for that. It's easier to just be patient and wait for the group to slooowwwwly come back up to around 197F and pull a shot with just a very brief cleaning flush.

It makes sense to me that it works. If you get a little vapor at the top of the TS loop, that breaks the siphon and the group goes cold because TS water is no longer circulating. But if you drain down the group a lot, then the top of the HX and TS loop is all vapor, and steam generated in the HX will rise to the top of the loop and condense, with most of it draining back via the bottom TS tube. The heat transfer here will include the heat of condensation in going from steam back to water, which is huge compared to what you get from cooling water in a proper thermosyphon.

Max1411 wrote: I don't know how it works with those machines having a immersion tubing at the HX outlet like the newer ECMs and Profitecs.

Yes - I expect it would be less effective on those machines that have a plastic tube extending from the upper HX fitting down into the HX chamber to pick up water nearer the end of the injector tube.
Pat
nínádiishʼnahgo gohwééh náshdlį́į́h

Max1411

Postby Max1411 » Feb 13, 2019, 6:30 pm

Peter_SVK wrote:Can you recommend that app controlled plug socket? Is it also remote controlled through internet? I use timer socket by now.

I personally can, yes. But everybody needs to know if he is willing to let the machine run with nobody home and the smart devices security aspect...

I use a TP-Link HS110 which can be controlled via internet. I turn the machine on when driving home per example. In addition you can program almost unlimited on/off timings for each day. I turn my machine on for one minute every evening to refill the boiler to avoid the noise when the machine turns on in the morning automatically.

@homeburrero
Thank you for confirming my observations.

By the way, the brief cleaning flush you mentioned ALWAYS leads to a (partial) TS Stall on the Appartamento, that's very annoying. Same for older other Rockets with vibration pumps. I don't know way, but it doesn't happen on the new models (type V and R). I thought they might have built does plastic tubes in the HX Outlet which could help avoiding TS stalls as a side effect, but I got different answers about the HX design. For sure there must be some difference because the new Rockets don't overheat at all, the Appartamento still does.