While my little cappuccino, while a high end home unit of 20 or 30 years ago, makes decent shots, I always used the 2 group leva La San Marco because the shots were better. I can't explain why. I miss it. But my experience has been that the commercial machines tend to produce better shots. Same grinder. I test every machine before it leaves my shop.

And I agree with Alan, spend the big bucks on a good grinder I always tell my customers. It makes the biggest difference and can last a lifetime, assuming new burrs and or service as needed.

Something I do differently that you guys are going to hate.... I leave the used grounds in the group. I *only* drink 3-8 shots a day and find that with a "clean" pf and basket, the next shot tastes nasty. Especially overnight. I dump the grounds and rinse the group JUST BEFORE making myself a shot. My theory is that whatever nasty there is, is absorbed and then discarded with the grounds.

It helps that with the Leva, the nasty stuff doesn't backwash through the group head as with a 3 way valve machine, but the same applies. Just backflush a little more frequently. (no need on the Leva;)

Something else that seems to be wrong, here anyway, is that I use as much coffee as the basket will hold. My experience being that more coffee equals more coffee flavor.

I believe that, for quite some time, professional level equipment was pretty much the only alternative available to produce good results.

The difference from that to the home user equipment was just too big (take machines with large temperature fluctuations like the Silvia and aluminum boilers like the Gaggia).

This, of course, is not ideal. For the home, a fully professional equipment tuned to put out one espresso per minute sitting idle for most of the time has some drawbacks (see the use of PID and cooling flushes for example). More recently, "prosumer" machines have been widely available in the $1500-$2500 which are capable of very good results.

However, the fact that people have to make cooling flushes on HX machines shows that those are still not completely adapted to a home use pattern. I have a feeling these "prosumer" machines are still just borrowing bits from their big brothers and using smaller boilers and heating elements.

A "real" home machine should be able to produce top level shots without temperature surfing and cooling flush rituals, and I believe this will require a new design, from scratch.

Gui Marques

A new machine from scratch. Pretty ambitious. Where would you begin? Is this a "cost no object solution" and is there a market for such a thing? For instance if this home machine cost 2 or 3 times what a commercial machine cost, would there still be a market?

Do people really "have to" do cooling flushes on heat exchanger machines?

You wouldn't use existing steam or water valves or vacuum valves? Pressure relief valve?

Could you not simply refine the temp control to have a narrower range or or make other refinements such as a heat sink? Smaller heat exchanger?

Choices choices...

A "real" home machine should be able to produce top level shots without temperature surfing and cooling flush rituals, and I believe this will require a new design, from scratch.

It seems to me the Breville 900 double boiler basically meets this description. One could argue about shot quality forever, but I have had excellent results from mine with very little effort.

mariobarba wrote:Does having commercial equipment mean not having to clean and/or dry your baskets between shots?

Just a random data point on this score, try the following:
Pull a shot
Knock the puck but don't wipe or rinse
Lock the empty portafilter
Run water through the group

On my machine, the holes in the basket get plugged with coffee, resulting in slow flow, and maybe a couple of spritzers. Ymmv, as this was done on my lever with extremely high low rate, but I would imagine that a shot starting with a clean basket would flow differently at the start. Also. The distribution of blocked and clear holes would be random, as would the number, so if not wiping were part of the routine, it would not aid consistency.

I have a HX machine at home but have been working with professional equipment for many years.

My machine needs the cooling flush. I tested it with a thermometer from work (a $420 piece) and without the cooling flush it is WAY to hot. You don't really need to measure this to know that tho, because when it has been sitting for a while and you turn it on, out comes water and steam and it spits and hiccups and hisses, you don't want this into the puck.

However after testing it many times with the thermometer it is somewhat easy to get the same results if you do the same thing every time. So temperature shouldn't be that much of a problem (even tho you can screw it up of course)

What I find is the biggest difference in my machine against the ones in the restaurant is that mine seems to have to "work" to produce the shot and it isn't really consistent throughout the shot. The professional machines just run the shot without looking stressed or having fluctuations in the pressure at all.

Just outside my window is a little shop/coffee making place that sells the Red Goat beans and even tho they arent maybe the best beans around if you read here, the espresso they serve taste good. After reading here (and having alot of problems, trying to come pass them and relearn and so on...)and trying to get my shots to taste similar to theirs I thought I had it pretty much ok. He even tasted my shots and thought I was pretty close inside the "window".

BUT, then I went to Tim Wendelbo and had a shot on their LaMarzocco and my world changed! The shot was so extremely good, no bitter, no sour anywhere, just supergood coffee taste, you never wanted it to end! (my world also changed of normal coffee and Im now using an aeropress everyday with beans from Tim but thats another story).
Of course they had different beans and thats a huge difference, but you can still get a sour or bitter shot if you do it wrong. I studied the baristas technique and they arent producing shot after shot after shot like they do in the busy coffee shops like on the main street, so they could take their time alittle more if they wanted. The barista basically clicked down the coffee in the basked right down, made a kind of a stockfleth move, tamped, polished, tamped again then lock and go!

So the difference (imho) first of all the machine have be able to make the shot without having any sort of difficulty. It should just run through the machine with power to spare. If my machine could do this, Im sure the cooling flush would not be a dealbreaker.

I have had some shots at home that have been really good. But I can never understand what I did to get that result. I do the same thing everytime. So just thinking about it, if the machine isnt even breaking a sweat making the shot, then this cancels out one problem. Im not saying all my shots are bad because of the machine, Im just saying its one more parameter.

Well, just to answer the original question, "For exceptional espresso, you need professional equipment... or do you?", it's a 'no'. I had a little Gaggia and tiny grinder for a long time and managed some truly exceptional espressos - occasionally. Even though it wasn't a common occurrence, I certainly drank more exceptional espresso at home than in cafes.

Of course that's because I was probably drinking 20-50 times more shots at home than in cafes, but I was also probably using better coffees than most cafes too. Most cafes, at least around here, serve a "bar blend" from a local roaster that's 'good' and maybe sometimes 'great', but will rarely be 'exceptional'. And no amount of professional equipment is going to change that. That's been changing in the last couple years, and now there are a number of places where you can choose from a few different coffees for espresso. And they've got the best professional equipment available too, so they can get the best out of these coffees. But on average, the espresso at home (with still 'mostly less than professional' equipment) is better, and I think that's because every week I'm looking to get my hands on the best coffees I can find online.

If the question was "For consistently exceptional espresso..." the answer might be different though

malling wrote:You shouldn't really compare the espresso you Can achieve at home, with what Tim Can produce at his place. As far as I remember he has a Strada in his shop, that means he Can pressure profile the shots, something you can't do at home unless you own a lever.

After All Tim is Well known for being one of the most skilled barista in our region. And there is absolutely no chance, that any of us would be able to deliver that level at home, unless we get some serious training by the Master himself.

But seriously I Can live with less.

Yes top end commercial equipment is easier to get consistent result with, in a commercial environment.

At home trying to tame This kind of equipment Can both be time consuming and it it Often needs some seriously modification, just to work in a home setting.

Now I don't mind that, just as I dont mind flushing 2-3 times before the extraction, but for most people that amount of routine is too troublesome. They would be better of with equipment that doesn't require All sorts of Ninja tricks.

I'm just trying to see what the difference is between the machines. I'm not saying I could go in there and produce the same shot on his machine. Yes he has a Strada.

I'm trying to follow the thread in the direction I find interesting in "what is the difference in equipment" and from what you say, one difference is pressure profiling. I don't know what that is, but I know I don't have it.


(For a while I was more interested in getting normal coffee as good as I get from Tims place, and that is also not as easy as it sounds, even tho I buy his beans. )

Maybe a better way to look at this question would be to determine which components can be lessened and still get exceptional espresso. Obviously, beans are paramount. You need exceptional beans to ever have a chance at exceptional espresso. Then I think we all would agree you need a good grinder. Maybe you don't need a titan but you do need something that can compete with the titan class. That leaves the machine and barista. Then again, I believe you need at least a very experienced, good barista to produce exceptional espresso. And that barista has to know what exceptional espresso is. Lastly is the machine. This seems to be where most of the discussion is focused. Funny how espresso seems to focus on the machine when it might just be the least important piece of the chain.