I believe the more important part is the guy who operates the machines.Also the coffee.
My local shop has K30,s and a San Remo 3 group machine.What they produce is just sad.

Another shop has a two group KvdW Idro and an Nino.I don't like what they produce either.
My little Strega beats them easy.As a matter of fact my Ponte vecchio Export with the Super Jolly beat them also.

So pro machines don't mean that much in my opinion.It's the guy pulling the lever.

uscfroadie wrote:Or on the cheap you can get a Pharos and have the best of both worlds: Vario convenience when it matters and large-scale conical when you are trying to explore what is possible from the rest of your equipment (and your skill level).

Well, my birthday is coming .

Spitz.me wrote:To this day, I still wish I had never purchased a Vario and just went quality commercial grinder. Correct me if my feelings are wrong, but I feel like I'm missing out on some magical shots. lol .

I'm sure you are -- it's obvious from posts here, u must get a Robur and Strada... then you will pull magical shots consistently

I'll be the first to admit that my technique is hindering me. Trust me when I tell you that the taste of my shots was better than anything in my neighborhood. It wasn't until my trip to Chicago that opened my eyes to what espresso could be and now I'm on a mission to acheive that goal. I've actually taken a step backwards because for me, just filling a basket to the rim, doing a quick Stockfleth's move, a little cleanup, tamp and pull is much easier for me than the weighing ritual I am now committed to. Maybe Marshall is on to something but I know in the long run, I will be much better off after this journey, wherever it leads.

I'm a gearhead. Always have been. I love mechanical devices and espresso machinery is no exception. The reason I bought the Strada wasn't really about espresso but more a desire to play with pressure profiling. And let's face it, it is a beautiful machine. I did mistakenly think it would be easier to pull awesome shots from but I now think it's harder to use than my Linea was, but that also could be just getting used to new equipment.

The Robur, on the other hand, was aimed at improving my espresso. I'm not facinated with grinders and I'm quite certain, most people aren't. Just look at all the newbie posts asking which machine to buy when no consideration has been given to the grinder. But you need a good grinder to pull consistently good shots. Did I need the Robur? No, I could have saved a lot of money buying even the K-10 which is at least as good, maybe better. But at the time, I thought the Robur was the best fit for me because I like the doserless option.

I know I'm not answering the question of this thread but I'm sure much of this topic is aimed at me.

Here is a question for anyone with commercial gear at home. It seems from reading people's posts about their pre and post shot routine that we all do slight variations of pretty much the same thing: figure out a way to get the same amount of coffee into a clean, dry basket. Carefully distribute the coffee and tamp with enough pressure to ensure proper distribution and a level surface. Lock in the pf, pull the shot, knock out the puck, wipe down the screen and basket and/or run some water through the group. Repeat.

My question is as follows. Most of the espresso I drink outside of my home is at Italian coffee bars. The baristi at these establishment's routines seem much simpler than mine/ours (if you will allow the assumption ). The barista usually does two thwacks on the doser, an light upward tamp on the plastic appendage attached to the grinder, a quick swipe of the ledge of the basket, lock and load. After the shot is done, the puck gets knocked out and the routine starts over. I never see any wiping, drying, running of water through the group etc. My question is does the differences in routines have to do with the equipment being used or the volume of shots being produced? Would having commercial equipment mean having to pay less attention to dose and distribution? Does having commercial equipment mean not having to clean and/or dry your baskets between shots? Does coffee not stick to the group screen on a commercial machine? If anyone has the answers to these questions I would love an explanation as to why that is as well.

mitch236 wrote:I know I'm not answering the question of this thread but I'm sure much of this topic is aimed at me.

You don't need to "apologize"; If I could, I would own a Strada too. No matter if my Duetto can offer the same quality shots (which I don't know, but according to this...)

My question is as follows. Most of the espresso I drink outside of my home is at Italian coffee bars. The baristi at these establishment's routines seem much simpler than mine/ours (if you will allow the assumption ). The barista usually does two thwacks on the doser, an light upward tamp on the plastic appendage attached to the grinder, a quick swipe of the ledge of the basket, lock and load. After the shot is done, the puck gets knocked out and the routine starts over. I never see any wiping, drying, running of water through the group etc.

For me, most of the intricates routines and techniques are an american invention. I'm not saying that all are unnecessary, but I believe that some of them are redundant, useless and sometimes cause more harm to the cup than good. I understand that some techniques are born of the need to cope with certain machine weakness, but sometimes people overdone a lot the things.

I've seen wiping baskets and running water thorugh the group in Italy. Well, to be fair, I only see it in one place. Go to Caffe Terzi in Bologna, they serve probably the best espresso I had in Italy, and the baristas wipes the baskets with a brush, flush the groups and knock the PF with the tamper. However you should know that the owner of Terzi say he learned those things from an american friend. Funny isn't it?

My question is does the differences in routines have to do with the equipment being used or the volume of shots being produced? Would having commercial equipment mean having to pay less attention to dose and distribution?

Yes, for me. My K10 Fresh makes almost automatic shots. Grind, tap & tamp. With others grinders, the Vario for example, this is not possible, and you need to address the grinder deficiencies with distribution techniques.

Does having commercial equipment mean not having to clean and/or dry your baskets between shots?

Not clean the baskets means you are a pig and don't care about the espresso you serve.

But as I said, Italy it's in another world, or better say, perhaps the rest we are in another world. Here in Spain no one wipes the baskets, do distribution or something like that; there are no "baristas", just waiters who someone told them in 5 minutes how to make a coffee.

Does coffee not stick to the group screen on a commercial machine?

I think yes. But it's not normal, nor in my Duetto. It happens usually on your machine? Usually is due to bad grind setting/bad dosing for the basket.

I guess for me, the major differences are when I pull two consecutive shots. Do you guys not wipe the basket and/or screen in between? What about flush some water in between? I know there was another thread talking about these routines and the differences between first and second shot, I was wondering if there should be different routines for home vs. commercial gear.