First Impressions of Decent Espresso DE1+PRO - Page 9

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Iowa_Boy

#81: Post by Iowa_Boy » Apr 02, 2019, 10:22 pm

I just came back from a spring break trip in Asia and made a 5 day stop in Hong Kong. John very kindly agreed to meet with me and it turned out to be the highlight of the trip. Even though I don't own a DE machine (yet), he spent hours showing me how to use the machine, touring the factory, talking espresso, and of course making espresso. I came away even more excited about owning a DE machine in the near future. We talked about the 1.3 version which I am holding out for, and it sounds like this is still on track for an August release. I was pleasantly surprised how easy and responsive the tablet interface was to use, and that using an iPad tablet was a realistic possibility in the next year or so (I think I heard that correctly). As has been posted already, it sounds like they may soon be able to offer a full 12 ml/sec flow rate and which will further enhance the capabilities of this machine. Whether this affects mouthfeel is TBD - personally some of the shots we made had what I would describe as excellent mouthfeel, so I was already impressed. The white XL version looks amazing in person. I hope white is eventually considered for the DE1+PRO. I left so impressed with the DE machines, and it was great to see them myself - August feels a long way off!

discsinthesky

#82: Post by discsinthesky » replying to Iowa_Boy » Apr 02, 2019, 11:03 pm

Just curious what about v1.3 you are holding out for?

Iowa_Boy

#83: Post by Iowa_Boy » replying to discsinthesky » Apr 02, 2019, 11:29 pm

My understanding is that it will have a group head controller which will have during-the-shot ability to adjust pressure or flow rate on the fly. That would give you the ability to tweak a shot once it has started. Is it a necessity? Nope - though it feels like a good jumping in point for me. We will see how it affects pricing as it gets closer. Lots of good reasons to just get one now and not wait as well!

pcrussell50

#84: Post by pcrussell50 » Apr 02, 2019, 11:32 pm

I wonder what changed that would permit the use of an iPad this time? And would it bring any improvements?

-Peter
LMWDP #553

Obsession

#85: Post by Obsession » Apr 03, 2019, 10:00 pm

pcrussell50 wrote:I wonder what changed that would permit the use of an iPad this time? And would it bring any improvements?

-Peter
Posting a response on behalf of John Buckman from Decent Espresso (available on the Decent Basecamp site at https://3.basecamp.com/3671212/buckets/ ... 1708769348):
> I wonder what changed that would permit the use of an iPad this time?

The DE1+ app is written using a cross-platform language called Tcl, which is why the app is currently available on Android, Windows, OSX and Linux.

In particular I've used Androwish http://www.androwish.org/index.html/home and the developer behind it has ported it to many other operating systems: http://www.androwish.org/index.html/wik ... ndroidwish

Androwish is planning on support iOS ("can be extended to run on another fruity smartphone platform").

However, the cross platform nature of Androwish relies on many other projects being up to date on the OSes it supports (such as the SDL https://wiki.libsdl.org/APIByCategory). So... Androwish can be ported to iOS once those other projects complete their iOS ports.

And once that happens, there will be a version of the DE1+ app on iOS. I don't have any visibility on when that will happen, but I expect it will, since it's happened already on so many other OSes.

As to the 2nd question:

> And would it bring any improvements?

No benefits at all, other than using a iPad (which you might prefer). I'm committed to all OSes having exactly the same feature set, for many reasons.

One note about tablet sizes: the Android tablets I've selected for the DE1 are wider than iPads, so that the overall height of the the espresso machine + tablet can still fit under kitchen counters. iPads tend to be larger, often much wider than the current Decent Tablet, and so I'm not sure they'll look all that great mounted on top of the DE1. But if you prefer it, it'll be your choice.
NB: Apart from being a Decent DE1+ owner, I have no affiliation with Decent. This post is for information of the HB community.

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jchung
Supporter ♡

#86: Post by jchung » Apr 29, 2019, 3:02 pm

With a new DE1Pro on the way, and looking into upping my water quality game.... I feel like Decent Espresso would be the perfect company to incorporate a proper water filter, like a ZeroWater filter, with custom mixing of filtered and non-filtered water to get user adjustable/specified TDS and PH levels.

:D :D :D

pcrussell50

#87: Post by pcrussell50 » Apr 29, 2019, 3:56 pm

No reason NOT to up your water quality game right now.

From a machine health perspective: All machines can suffer from scale damage, even the machine you have now, with it's descaling function. Relying on such a function is never as good as just using safe water from the get-go. And you stand a better chance of higher resale value for your old machine when the new one arrives.

From a taste perspective: The machine you have now is capable of making as good an espresso as it's possible to make. If you have the tasting sensitivity to tell if espresso made from boutique water tastes better to you than the soft water they use in the espresso shops you go to, then no reason not to begin enjoying it right now. If not, you can use a home-sized espresso softener like the ones they use in the shops. They are a little over $100. Sometimes less if you get a good deal.

-Peter
LMWDP #553

User avatar
jchung
Supporter ♡

#88: Post by jchung » replying to pcrussell50 » Apr 29, 2019, 4:34 pm

I've spoken with my wife about the old machine. And we have come up with a plan to recover the cost of the old machine with a minimum of loss. I'm not necessarily as concerned with taste, as my tongue isn't quite so refined. But, I am interested in minimizing scale build up on the new one when it arrives. I wonder though... as the DE1 doesn't have a boiler, would it be subject to the same deleterious effects of straight RO water as regular boiler based espresso machine? I guess maybe the manifolds might be affected?

pcrussell50

#89: Post by pcrussell50 » Apr 29, 2019, 5:16 pm

Been a lot of discussion about water lately, not just here but on the Aussie forums as well. I get the feeling there are some misconceptions.

Hardness: there is Ca or Mg or both. Scale may form if the pH of the water doesn't preclude it, or if there is simply too much hardness. If you want some hardness, it is best that you have full understanding of your water's properties to know that it still won't scale up.

Purity: there nothing in the water, no hardness or anything else

Soft water: there is no hardness (Ca or Mg) but there might be plenty of other stuff

RO systems endeavour to make water pure... No hardness or anything else.

Distilled water: IS pure. No hardness or anything else

Espresso machines generally like soft water, NOT pure water. You don't want Ca or Mg (unless you know your water's chemistry very well), because it can cause scale. But you don't want pure water because your machine's sensors need stuff in the water to work right. Also, pure water does not like to be pure. It's wants to draw things out of whatever it's in contact with. If that's common espresso machine materials brass or copper or aluminum, it will try to leach stuff out of it and eat it away and slowly destroy your machine. Sometimes (often?) RO water may be dangerously pure. BUT... a proper espresso machine softener will not be. They work by ion exchange and may actually put more TDS into the water than the tap water that went into it. But none of that TDS will be hardness (Ca or Mg) until it's time to change the filter. Otherwise, you can buy a big jug of distilled water and add 100mg per liter of potassium bicarbonate or sodium bicarbonate to the pure water, and it will have enough TDS for the safety of your machine.

-Peter
LMWDP #553

Firedancer

#90: Post by Firedancer » May 11, 2019, 12:42 am

discsinthesky wrote:Just curious what about v1.3 you are holding out for?
Headgroup change, new heater, UL approval ... and whatever slew of changes John has made in the interim. Non-stop tweaking.