First Impressions of Decent Espresso DE1+PRO - Page 8

Need help with equipment usage or want to share your latest discovery?
Iowa_Boy

Postby Iowa_Boy » Mar 12, 2019, 11:11 pm

JayBeck wrote:Yes.

More elaborate reply: Slayer comes from the factory at 2ml/s I believe, pushed through a needle valve with 9 bar pump pressure behind it. What this means is that the machine can continue to push that low flow until the machine hits 9 bar. This is different from line pressure based preinfusion where pressure quits rising when like pressure is reached.

DE1 does have more headspace and that may be why the standard Slayer shot is set to 3ml/s. Really, The DE1 can do about anything flow wise. I use a Slayer profile I made that uses a 1.4ml/s flow since that is the flow a lot of users seem to adjust their Slayer to. I flow 1.4 ml/s flow to 6 bar of pressure, which takes 30-45 seconds depending on dose and coffee. 3 ml/s will half that time so really it depends on how long you want the preinfusion to last. Then you rise to 9 bar and hold or start a pressure decline.


Thank you! I can tell this machine will be a lot of fun to use. I was reading more from Scott Rao's advanced mode for the DE1, and the settings seem limitless.
I can envision my advanced mode profile looking something like this for lighter roasts:
Preinfusion at 1.4 ml/s to 6 bar of pressure (as you have above)
Then rise to 9 bar, hold for 35 seconds or flow exceeds 1.25 ml/sec
then switch to flow mode, hold at 1.25 ml/sec (resulting in pressure decline)
And then of course I could try adding a bloom period after preinfusion... :D

I get that it all depends on taste, how beans are roasted, etc, but I think I am finally understanding the capabilities of this machine. The more I understand, the less important I think Version 1.3 gets with the manual controls. Would I ever really use them? I suppose if you grind wasn't yet dialed in, and flow was faster than desired, you could manually lower the pressure on the fly to compensate. That might help that particular shot, but I would still increase dose or grind finer next round. Once dialed in, the automatic profile will be far more reliable. When I originally was thinking about Version 1.3, I was hoping it would be more like a tactile paddle similar to the Bianca/LM GS3/Slayer. But with LCDs only, it may simply be a feature that doesn't get used often. We'll see as more details come out.

DJF

Postby DJF » Mar 13, 2019, 4:48 am

wgmcg wrote: SNIP .. but lately I suspect the only thing silicon valley has really added to our lives is the idea that everything being half-assed and broken all the time is normal.


With that in mind one would be reluctant to walk out the front door ever again considering the extensive roll Silicon Valley type technology plays in our every day lives. Perhaps you would, in fact be better off with last century analogue coffee machine technology.
"24 hours in a day, 24 beers in a case. Coincidence? I don't think so."

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bhauff

Postby bhauff » Mar 13, 2019, 10:34 am

Iowa_Boy wrote:Thank you! I can tell this machine will be a lot of fun to use. I was reading more from Scott Rao's advanced mode for the DE1, and the settings seem limitless.
I can envision my advanced mode profile looking something like this for lighter roasts:
Preinfusion at 1.4 ml/s to 6 bar of pressure (as you have above)
Then rise to 9 bar, hold for 35 seconds or flow exceeds 1.25 ml/sec
then switch to flow mode, hold at 1.25 ml/sec (resulting in pressure decline)
And then of course I could try adding a bloom period after preinfusion... :D


You are right on the mark, and a number of profiles like this have been created by current owners. The transition to flow towards the end of the shot to keep a constant flow, while the puck is nearly fully spent, and let the machine decline the pressure is working very well indeed!

The journey of making the coffee is equally as enjoyable to me as drinking the end product. I have come to realize, after owning the DE1Pro for 7 months now, that I am so thankful to be a part of the vibrant DE community. I truly enjoy engaging with passionate skilled coffee experts, and am growing by leaps and bounds.
Enjoying the adventure is as rewarding as the destination.

JayBeck

Postby JayBeck » Mar 13, 2019, 11:22 am

Iowa_Boy wrote:Thank you! I can tell this machine will be a lot of fun to use. I was reading more from Scott Rao's advanced mode for the DE1, and the settings seem limitless.
I can envision my advanced mode profile looking something like this for lighter roasts:
Preinfusion at 1.4 ml/s to 6 bar of pressure (as you have above)
Then rise to 9 bar, hold for 35 seconds or flow exceeds 1.25 ml/sec
then switch to flow mode, hold at 1.25 ml/sec (resulting in pressure decline)
And then of course I could try adding a bloom period after preinfusion... :D

I get that it all depends on taste, how beans are roasted, etc, but I think I am finally understanding the capabilities of this machine. The more I understand, the less important I think Version 1.3 gets with the manual controls. Would I ever really use them? I suppose if you grind wasn't yet dialed in, and flow was faster than desired, you could manually lower the pressure on the fly to compensate. That might help that particular shot, but I would still increase dose or grind finer next round. Once dialed in, the automatic profile will be far more reliable. When I originally was thinking about Version 1.3, I was hoping it would be more like a tactile paddle similar to the Bianca/LM GS3/Slayer. But with LCDs only, it may simply be a feature that doesn't get used often. We'll see as more details come out.


I think the primary use of manual controls on DE1 will be to save a shot and help with dialing in. I think that will finish polishing the product and user experience. I also think that most people will continue to take advantage of the precision of automation so that once a shot is dialed in, you press a button for your coffee.

To me, this is the best of both worlds and the only competitor I've seen would be the Rocket R9 One.

pcrussell50

Postby pcrussell50 » Mar 13, 2019, 12:52 pm

Iowa_Boy wrote:Thank you! I can tell this machine will be a lot of fun to use...snip.... When I originally was thinking about Version 1.3, I was hoping it would be more like a tactile paddle similar to the Bianca/LM GS3/Slayer. But with LCDs only, it may simply be a feature that doesn't get used often. We'll see as more details come out.


Excellent post. Just a small point of order. The Slayer paddle has nothing tactile, other than the fact it's a simple three position switch: off, low, and high, that clicks as you switch between them.

-Peter
LMWDP #553

rimblas

Postby rimblas » Mar 13, 2019, 4:17 pm

pcrussell50 wrote:Excellent post. Just a small point of order. The Slayer paddle has nothing tactile, other than the fact it's a simple three position switch: off, low, and high, that clicks as you switch between them.

Ah good point. A DE "paddle" (for lack of a better name) would be a "drive by wire" or maybe even BT. Who knows...

wgmcg

Postby wgmcg » Mar 15, 2019, 12:40 pm

DJF wrote:With that in mind one would be reluctant to walk out the front door ever again considering the extensive roll Silicon Valley type technology plays in our every day lives. Perhaps you would, in fact be better off with last century analogue coffee machine technology.


Well yes, perhaps I would.

Just a note, I've been a unix nerd for nearly 30 years, so my skepticism about the industry comes from experience. It's not that I don't think technology *can* delight people, it's that it rarely does. In my view this is a human problem having to do with our goals and values more than with the technology itself.

In any event, in the last couple of days I've gotten my DE dialed. I finally got a "god" shot out of it this morning. A lesser god perhaps, but very good nonetheless. It turns out the biggest problem I was having with the DE with the lighter roasted espresso blend I'm using was temp. I have to brew at 206F (96.5ish) or everything goes horribly sour. It never occurred to me to go that high... or, it did eventually, but only after 3 weeks of frustration. I haven't checked as to whether this is a calibration issue with the DE, or just what this coffee requires. But up at these temps all of the sourness that's been vexing me suddenly becomes sweet.

SeanSheep

Postby SeanSheep » Mar 15, 2019, 7:31 pm

wgmcg wrote: I haven't checked as to whether this is a calibration issue with the DE, or just what this coffee requires.


I recall there was a user on another forum who was having similar problems and it turned out their new DE1Pro was approx 9 degrees F / 5 degrees C out of calibration, albeit it was running too hot. Worthwhile checking if you have the means.

Paul_green

Postby Paul_green » Mar 16, 2019, 1:18 am

wgmcg wrote:in the last couple of days I've gotten my DE dialed. I finally got a "god" shot out of it this morning. A lesser god perhaps, but very good nonetheless. It turns out the biggest problem I was having with the DE with the lighter roasted espresso blend I'm using was temp. I have to brew at 206F (96.5ish) or everything goes horribly sour.


This is good to know.

FWIW, the DE1Pro is my first espresso machine, and I've sort of tried my best to ignore everything except for the basics while trying to figure things out: basic 9 bar profile, 1:2 shots, 18 grams in, and adjusting the grind to get a 25 second pull. I've finally got there--today pulled my first truly exceptional shot, though only after relegating my Vario W to pourovers and ordering a new E37S. In any case, I've tried a few different beans, including some fruity stuff--and have had the same experience as you (with the fruit more sour than sweet). I took the machine over to a friend's house, who has a GS/3, and we pulled some side-by-side shots, and his were definitely sweeter (even out of the same grinder). Never occurred to me to adjust temp. Will do tomorrow.

That said--the primary point I wanted to make is that, from the perspective of a relative newbie to home espresso, this machine is incredible! I don't have extensive experience with various other machines, so my perspective is naive--but I'm completely sold on the machine. Very good espresso--and I haven't even touched most of the various variables that are controllable!

DJF

Postby DJF » Mar 16, 2019, 5:25 am

wgmcg wrote:Well yes, perhaps I would.

Just a note, I've been a unix nerd for nearly 30 years, so my skepticism about the industry comes from experience. It's not that I don't think technology *can* delight people, it's that it rarely does. In my view this is a human problem having to do with our goals and values more than with the technology itself.

In any event, in the last couple of days I've gotten my DE dialed. I finally got a "god" shot out of it this morning. A lesser god perhaps, but very good nonetheless. It turns out the biggest problem I was having with the DE with the lighter roasted espresso blend I'm using was temp. I have to brew at 206F (96.5ish) or everything goes horribly sour. It never occurred to me to go that high... or, it did eventually, but only after 3 weeks of frustration. I haven't checked as to whether this is a calibration issue with the DE, or just what this coffee requires. But up at these temps all of the sourness that's been vexing me suddenly becomes sweet.


Well done! I assume Basecamp played a part. On the same day my email server died, my phone spat the dummy and our website collapsed. I've been using the Lambro for a few weeks but just fired up the DE with a modified E61 profile and it was delicious. My wife now dislikes the Lambro because it's too sweet and chocolatey! DE to the rescue!
"24 hours in a day, 24 beers in a case. Coincidence? I don't think so."