OKAY - Because I am a smart home enthusiast and a lot of stuff is dependent on WiFi ... Refrigerator, Tv, Solar Panels, My car , etc. See what I mean??? Why not ditch an additional screen on the espresso machine and connect to wi-fi. Talk to Samsung or whirlpool or some sort of appliance company to see how they do it. Now you have added Apple, Windows X and Linux and more to this machine. Just my take on this. It is a good start. Oh Oh ... If Ceado or Eureka is reading my post ... there is trouble in competition but at least DECENT has a machine start on doing this. Also ... PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE add machine maintenance functionality on equipment wear-outs ... kind of like my finding out what is wrong with my car using the BLUEDRIVER tool to attach to the car and read from my phone if I need a new water pump but in the case of an espresso machine ... a new boiler... ??? Happy Brewing Folks

On another note, the game is all about consistency. How you come up with it with your equipment and workflow, it will always express your definition of a good espresso, not everyone else. It's just like buying coffee beans internationally and from farms themselves. Ahhh ... now I have a headache. Going back to web development with my own cup of espresso. Just a bean trying to taste good.

I FEEL YOUR PAIN MY FRIEND BUT HERE IS MY TAKE ON DECENT ESPRESSO ....

I learn a lot from everyone who loves coffee and just want to share my two cents which may only be worth two cents. <3

Exb2019 wrote:OKAY - Because I am a smart home enthusiast and a lot of stuff is dependent on WiFi ... Refrigerator, Tv, Solar Panels, My car , etc. ... Why not ditch an additional screen on the espresso machine and connect to wi-fi.

The issue is not technological, it is regulatory. Apparently enabling WiFi control on the DE1 machines is a huge problem with safety certification agencies. One can easily envision an issue whereby you could remote control your machine and have it start spewing steam or super-hot water without your physical presence. However adding a smart plug to power the machine on is certainly feasible, as it would not enable remote control of the dangerous parts.

Similarly there is an issue with directly connecting the tablet to the machine, rather than communicating via bluetooth. While BT in this context appears impressive, in reality the communication protocol is not as robust as you would really want, and this has resulted in lots of annoying, but not debilitating, issues. Apparently directly wiring the tablet to the machine would necessitate having the entire unit, including the tablet now be subject to safety certification. Currently the tablet has its own stand alone certification, and that is sufficient for use as a BT driver. Go figure.

For a small company these issues are probably much more problematic than for one with very deep pockets.

I would argue that these problems would be problematic for a company with even deep pockets. Look at the auto industry having to deal with different standards in multiple countries.

I struggle to see how a 110v espresso machine could create a failure mode that results in a significant (life critical) event whereas the ability to remotely hack into a car system while driving could easily become one.

Point taken. I was thinking more along the lines of the cost of testing to certify an integrated tablet controller vs one connected wirelessly.

rimblas wrote:Hard for me to say without first-hand experience with the BDB, but I'm going to say likely. Also, it depends on the beans, some are fluffier than others. I wouldn't worry a whole lot about it. I think it reasonable to start with the nominal value of a basket (15g on a 15, 18g on a 18 basket...) and then adjust as needed. I personally don't updose because of head space as that's nothing more than an extra second or two of pre-infusion. I updose because I want a thicker bed and more resistance. Or maybe when I suspect that I'm over extracting.



Extrapolating the rise of the flow from the chart, I suspect 1.5 ml/s maybe even close to 2 ml/s. Nothing wrong with 1:2 ratio, I used to do that ALL the time and then, experimenting, I found that for milky drinks I really liked the shorter ratio.

I can't think of I reason why you couldn't pull a similar shot on the DE with the same beans. Perhaps because of the headspace the preinfusion could be a few seconds longer.



In this particular profile it would have stopped at 2.5 bar (in about 20 more seconds). But I've done flow profiles where I want constant 1.0 ml/s and the pressure will keep on dropping to the point where there's almost no pressure. Although I don't think those shots taste well.

Glad this help!

Great info! Yes, I currently change baskets depending on the beans, so not I big deal to figure out what works best with the DE. Seems like the lighter roasted beans are less fluffy.

One thing I might still be confused on. To set up this profile another way, could you after pre-infusion have the DE set to flow mode (say 1.0 ml/sec) and adjust the grind so that the initial pressure ends up being around 8-9 bar, and then let the DE adjust the pressure pressure down as the puck erodes naturally? Wouldn't this accomplish a similar goal?

Also, does the preinfusion automatically end when drops start to appear? I thought I saw that in one of the videos, but not sure how the machine would know that.

Iowa_Boy wrote:Also, does the preinfusion automatically end when drops start to appear? I thought I saw that in one of the videos, but not sure how the machine would know that.

You can set the pressure at the puck at which preinfusion ends and your pressure or flow profile begins. Most profiles default at 4 bar.

JayBeck wrote:Through the advanced editor you can do anything, including pressure based preinfusion and flow based declines and all that's in between.

Or rather, you think you can do anything. You have to have a lot of faith that everything that is being represented on the screen is actually happening in the machine. Personally I'm of the opinion that there are wide margins of error. If this were not the case I doubt there would be so many complaints about the quality of the coffee produced.

Iowa_Boy wrote:To set up this profile another way, could you after pre-infusion have the DE set to flow mode (say 1.0 ml/sec) and adjust the grind so that the initial pressure ends up being around 8-9 bar, and then let the DE adjust the pressure pressure down as the puck erodes naturally?

You are describing a flow profile. That's exactly how it works. Pressure changes to maintain a desired flow rate.

Iowa_Boy wrote:Also, does the preinfusion automatically end when drops start to appear? I thought I saw that in one of the videos, but not sure how the machine would know that.

Several things typically occur at the end of preinfusion: puck saturates, pressure rises, flow rate drops, and drops appear on the bottom of the basket.

On the DE1, preinfusion can be programmed to end by time or pressure. Jorge's profile preinfuses until puck pressure hits 8 bar, or 60s elapses. The long time period (60s) forces preinfusion to end with pressure rather than time, ensuring that the puck is fully saturated.

Iowa_Boy wrote:Great info! Yes, I currently change baskets depending on the beans, so not I big deal to figure out what works best with the DE. Seems like the lighter roasted beans are less fluffy.

One thing I might still be confused on. To set up this profile another way, could you after pre-infusion have the DE set to flow mode (say 1.0 ml/sec) and adjust the grind so that the initial pressure ends up being around 8-9 bar, and then let the DE adjust the pressure pressure down as the puck erodes naturally? Wouldn't this accomplish a similar goal?

Also, does the preinfusion automatically end when drops start to appear? I thought I saw that in one of the videos, but not sure how the machine would know that.

Let me address the last question first. Preinfusion in this instance is purely the name of the firsts step. The trigger to move to the next step is either a time limit (60 s in this particular case) or a certain pressure (8 bar here), both can be adjusted with the slider. Currently the DE cannot detect the first drops.

For a flow mode shot, absolutely, that's what Flow Profiles do. The one I shared was a Pressure Profile (and you can see it on the selected tab). With Flow Profiles the pre-infusion step is the same, but the second step ("rise and hold" if you will) can specify the constant flow you want. The DE will then vary the pressure as needed. These profiles are trickier to dial in. For example, it's not unusual to see pressure rocket to 12 bar trying to reach a flow.

Here's one such example. The dotted blue line represents the goal (about 0.8 ml/s). The pressure was capped at 12bar by the software logic. Eventually, around 47s the flow goal was reached and the pressure declined as needed to maintain.

There's a 3rd kind of profile in the DE, the Advanced. With these you can name up to 20 steps (or so, going by memory) each step can be pressure, flow, or simply a pause. Here you can really go nuts with creativity and imagination.