Very thorough Jon. I also believe the fault is in that connection. a new connector harness is $5 plus shipping. However, a new board is considerably more. I have tried to clean up the burnt crap in the connector and the pin itself to see if I can make the connection, but so far it has not worked. The wires are screwed into the connector and I ruined a precision screw driver trying to get that one out.

Your explanation for the auto-fill makes perfect sense now.

Woz wrote:I also believe the fault is in that connection. a new connector harness is $5 plus shipping. However, a new board is considerably more. I have tried to clean up the burnt crap in the connector and the pin itself to see if I can make the connection, but so far it has not worked. The wires are screwed into the connector and I ruined a precision screw driver trying to get that one out.

I guess the connector must be pretty far gone if it's proving that hard to clean, which is a shame. It is a bit hard to tell from the photos really.

What do you think you'll do then ? Order a new control board and harness ? Let me know how you get on.

As a slight aside, apart from this glitch, how do you find the machine in general ? How long have you had it, and have you been pleased with it ?

Jon

Interesting you bring up the auto-fill, since it appears that an interlock with the auto-fill appears to be the only reason the power for the heating element passes through the control board at all. If you didn't have to worry about the heating element running on a dry machine, the temperature control on the boiler would just be a simple circuit through the safety switch (is that the for the reservoir level?), the safety thermostat, and the p-stat.

Background: My expobar (ca. 2001) came (originally) from Jim Anslow, a technician who added a relay so that the heating element current does not pass through the board. The wire that comes from the burnt connector on your machine goes to the relay on my machine. When the auto-fill runs, it always end with a loud 'click' as the level sensor is contacted with the boiler water, and the relay is activated to allow the heating elment to come on. Perhaps the larger Gicar 'brain box' that is in more expensive machines is rated for a higher current than the smaller one that is in the expobars?

If your expobar doesn't have this relay, you might want to add one to protect the new control board.

Alive......it's alive.............IT"S ALIVE!

click here to listen to my exclamation! http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/Set/4159/ALIVE.WAV


Sweet mother of all that is good in the world! I found a screw driver I could use to get that wire out of the scorched connector and messed around with the insides some more to try and clean out anything that would be blocking it. Then i reconnected it to the board and fire her up. Testing for voltage on that pin gave me a reading of 1 and testing the wire and thermostat now read 1 too. I thought it wasn't working when suddenly, I heard the tell tale sound of the boiler starting to warm!

I need to go drink some beer now to celebrate.

Woz wrote:Alive......it's alive.............IT"S ALIVE!

Nice one. Glad to see you persisted with cleaning the connector, and it finally paid off

Woz wrote:I need to go drink some beer now to celebrate.

Surely you mean espresso ?

Jon

mikep wrote:Interesting you bring up the auto-fill, since it appears that an interlock with the auto-fill appears to be the only reason the power for the heating element passes through the control board at all. If you didn't have to worry about the heating element running on a dry machine, the temperature control on the boiler would just be a simple circuit through the safety switch (is that the for the reservoir level?), the safety thermostat, and the p-stat.

Background: My expobar (ca. 2001) came (originally) from Jim Anslow, a technician who added a relay so that the heating element current does not pass through the board. The wire that comes from the burnt connector on your machine goes to the relay on my machine. When the auto-fill runs, it always end with a loud 'click' as the level sensor is contacted with the boiler water, and the relay is activated to allow the heating elment to come on. Perhaps the larger Gicar 'brain box' that is in more expensive machines is rated for a higher current than the smaller one that is in the expobars?

If your expobar doesn't have this relay, you might want to add one to protect the new control board.

I think that's a very good point really, although I've no idea personally whether the gicar boxes come in budget and "commercial" versions, I guess it would make sense that they did.

It also means that, from a quick testing perspective, one could also bypass the control relay completely to check the function of the heater circuit in isolation. This had previously crossed my mind, but it wasn't something I felt comfortable suggesting.

I was surprised from the photos at just how small that heater relay was on that control board, considering that this is a 110/120v machine and how much current the heater element has to pass compared with a european 230v machine. It also got me thinking whether the connector itself was even up to the job. But, I can only assume that it is, or else we'd be hearing about a lot more failures.

Jim Anslow's mod sounds like something well worth considering for those who are a) savvy enough electrically, and b) worried about potential future reliability problems, especially considering the price of a new control box.

Jon

JonS wrote: What do you think you'll do then ? Order a new control board and harness ? Let me know how you get on.

As a slight aside, apart from this glitch, how do you find the machine in general ? How long have you had it, and have you been pleased with it ?

Jon

I'll be ordering a new connector on Monday. I am celebrating with ESPRESSO this morning!

I have had the machine 3 years and 3 months. This is the first issue I have had. I have been very pleased with it overall. It is annoying to have to refill the res every 3 days. However, I have had no burning upgrade fever. In that same period of time, I have upgraded my roasting equipment three times moving from a Fresh Roast +8 to I-Roast to Turbo Crazy. That being said, I am buying a new machine today! LOL!

Not knowing how this would resolve itself got me to thinking and with the special offers this weekend as further incentive, I began researching new machines. Also, my folks were here recently and truly enjoyed my cappuccinos everyday. When they got home, my Dad said he thought he would have to get a machine for himself. So, the perfect plan was formed: I would repair my Expobar, sell it to my Dad and buy a new machine.

Now, just when I thought I was settled and the choice was made, I continue wondering if the Quick Mill Vetrano is the right machine!

Woz wrote:I have had the machine 3 years and 3 months. This is the first issue I have had. I have been very pleased with it overall.

That's really excellent to hear. I think it's always worth having this kind of info when folks have had a forum-documented problem with a machine, it speaks volumes in the bigger picture of machine ownership.

Woz wrote:Now, just when I thought I was settled and the choice was made, I continue wondering if the Quick Mill Vetrano is the right machine!

Way to go! Given that you're already familiar with an HX machine, I doubt you can go far wrong with a Vetrano

Long may the Expobar continue to give your Dad excellent service !

Jon