EspressoForge - First Impressions - Page 17

Need help with equipment usage or want to share your latest discovery?
beananimal

#161: Post by beananimal »

@MJW:
First, the idea about heating is not mine. It is from some other user. I just picked it up as I believe it may be a very big point.

Second, my first experiments on these ideas failed, due to trivial real life reasons:
The safety logic of our kitchen prevented to heat my milk jug directly on the hot plate as it is too small.
The foam rings I tried as a drip stop did not absorb the water, as the structure was not fine enough.
I'll hopefully post some pictures the weekend to make my ideas visible for your comments.
Peter

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dominico
Team HB

#162: Post by dominico »

There is an EspressoForge accessories thread EspressoForge accessories where Kofi 3d printed a drip catcher to go around the top of the shaft. I thought it was a pretty neat idea and am thinking of making something similar with sugru or the DIY Oogoo alternative.
http://bit.ly/29dgjDW
Il caffè è un piacere, se non è buono che piacere è?

beananimal

#163: Post by beananimal »

I try to show my work with the Forge and my ideas and the results so far:

Filling the basket.
A comment refering to some earlier contribution: There is plenty of reserve on the HGone to grind finer.


Tamper base as included for free in the package. (basket in the ring)


The drip stops I tried, but did not work as the structure did not hold the water.
A velcro-strip and a hair-band.


The forge on a milk jug. In principle ok, but our kitchen stove refused to heat it.


View from below. The top surface must be flat and should have the diameter as the e61 sealing.


Version that worked today

American espresso machine sitting in Germany on a brand new japanese tea pot made in China.
The color will change to plain black soon.
(just ignore the french lady in the backgroud, a souvenir from the last holiday trip)
Peter

beananimal

#164: Post by beananimal »

Explanation on the idea of pre-heating with the teapot:

+ No activity necessary, no separate handling of hot water

+ the temperature of the Forge is self-stabilizing. System inherent, like most big espresso machines.
The final temperature depends on the insulation. Will be different between V1 and V2.

+ You can handle several of them in parallel. Not really important for home,
but you could serve this way on events. Like with a big 4-group machine:
>>> 4-cylinder EspressoForge - continuous serving espressi for coffee lovers. My favourite imagination.

+ can be the stand-by version with some guests at home

+ (might look) stylish

- First pre-heating it is slower that the normal was (at least my version), but then it's continuous.
- you need a plug to close the outlet of the kettle

There shall be no leakage between kettle and Forge, because a minor pressure is needed to transport the steam flow through the Forge. I used an additional e61 sealing to compensate the rough surface of the pot and applied some force by hand for the test.

Generally:
The Forge is less hot in the upper part.
The ring is still cold, as it is not pre-heated.
Therefore there is no temperature problem in handling.
If acc. to your taste and experience you don't need any pre-heating, all this fuss is obsolete for you.

Hoping for comments / improvements.
Peter

beananimal

#165: Post by beananimal »

Update from breakfast:

After the water in the pot is hot and boiling the heating of the forge is very fast. Maybe a minute.
If the head is slower depends if the forge is on top while heating the water, or just placed on the boiling pot.

Here a picture with a rough-and-ready sealing and cup pre-heating


The full tube length gets warm as soon as the steam is passing through.
The temperature of the espresso flowing out was 65°C to 71°C.
The picture was taken later, just to show the way I did it.


The result what I got and enjoyed :D . Medium dark roast from a local roaster. I need to go down into the cellar and work a bit on my Huky.
My big lever has been unemployed the last 2 days. It's a pity. I need to come to a fair coexistence :?

Peter

samuellaw178
Team HB

#166: Post by samuellaw178 »

Nice work Peter. It's pretty interesting to see how we're trying hard to get the Forge up to temp. But sometimes I really do wonder what's the temp that the coffee is really seeing, or are all these unneccesary. A Scace would be great but it's quite expensive just to get it for the Forge. All we need is some 'proven' preheat ritual backed up with actual Scace data but that seems difficult to come by. As it is now, I'll just accept it is brewing at lower temp and judge/adjust by my palate.

Your kettle is a good one. I will look around when I'm in the departmental store next time. :P Ideally, electric kettle works better and the pour spout should have a lid. With the long V2, would it be unstable on the kettle?

beananimal

#167: Post by beananimal »

Hello Samelaw178
>>> It's pretty interesting to see how we're trying hard to get the Forge up to temp. But sometimes I really do wonder what's the temp that the coffee is really seeing, or are all these unneccesary.<<<

Yes I try to get the Forge up to the commonly accepted range, without having any claim about the taste with the temperatures before. It is more because "everybody knows the right should-be temparature" and I would like to escape to be in principle argueing as soon as starting coffeetalk with other coffee freaks. And this "thing" is made and perfect for "coffee freaks".

>>> A Scace would be great but it's quite expensive just to get it for the Forge. All we need is some 'proven' preheat ritual backed up with actual Scace data but that seems difficult to come by. As it is now, I'll just accept it is brewing at lower temp and judge/adjust by my palate.<<<
I don't know if the final temperature is the right one, or maybe even to hot. The steam is 100°C fix, the inner surface of the tube comes very close to it after a minute. The massive head may need 5 minutes.
With this scenario it could be even too hot (?)

>>>Your kettle is a good one. I will look around when I'm in the departmental store next time. :P Ideally, electric kettle works better and the pour spout should have a lid. With the long V2, would it be unstable on the kettle?<<<

There is no problem about stability at all. The kettle can be cheap. The criteria are:
As long as you don't have a simple disc (inner diameter ~55mm) to cover and "seal" a standard pot
and stand the Forge on it, you need a kettle with this size opening, horizontal opening, no handle above or to flap aside. But all this is only handling, not the coffee-scientific thing about "do we need what we want", is it perfect what we can get?

I was a bit worring that the 70°C of the shot might be already too hot.
I'll measure the water temperture directly under the shower. Would we be convinced if we had there the "perfect 90-92-94°C ?
I did already fix some tape on the metal surfaces as the laser cannot measure on reflecting surface.
(currently I am a bit handicaped in handling, as I need one hand to fix a plug in the hole where the gauge should be. This was damaged by USPS or DHL. So I don't know the pressure and my pressure is not that constand as it should be. Therfore there is some additional uncertainty in my statements)

The funny thing is, I don't have a real problem, since the espresso is fantastic.
It seams we are generating a virtual problem because we do not understand why this is possible.
With this mess of temperature, the espresso cannot be good, and maybe we so are mindtrapped in "our gadget is wonderful" that our palate works on placebo basis :wink: .

beananimal

#168: Post by beananimal »

Regarding SCACE test:
Hi, do you think it is possible to get something acceptable out of the parts as below,
or will the discussion about thermal mass scrap the value of all results?

I found in the attic a e61-capsule basket.




The red cable is a wire probe currently on my Huky.
I can drill a hole through the side and place the tip of the probe on top of a capsule.
The filling of the capsule can be adapted. Maybe ground coffee, maybe wax or silicon. Pro? Con?
Temperature / time I can record with Artisan.

Flow restistance can be tested until the shot time fits. Should not be a problem.
For thermal capacity I don't have a reference.
Hoping for your concerns / proposals.
Peter

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aecletec

#169: Post by aecletec »

The exit temperature of espresso seems to imply that something "right" is happening above ;)
I stopped worrying about absolute ROK temps when I confirmed that my exit temps were similar to the top city cafe at the time on his Strada EP.

samuellaw178
Team HB

#170: Post by samuellaw178 »

beananimal wrote:Regarding SCACE test:
Hi, do you think it is possible to get something acceptable out of the parts as below,
or will the discussion about thermal mass scrap the value of all results?

The red cable is a wire probe currently on my Huky.
I can drill a hole through the side and place the tip of the probe on top of a capsule.
The filling of the capsule can be adapted. Maybe ground coffee, maybe wax or silicon. Pro? Con?
Temperature / time I can record with Artisan.

Flow restistance can be tested until the shot time fits. Should not be a problem.
For thermal capacity I don't have a reference.
Hoping for your concerns / proposals.
Peter
I'm a bit late, but I think yeah, that'll work well and give an idea to what temperature range we are getting in the Forge. The advantage of that is that you can fill with ground coffee to adjust your flow, seems like a good system. If you could do some testings when you have time available, that'd be great!