Espresso shot suddenly stops flowing? - Page 4

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Valo_Soul

#31: Post by Valo_Soul »

symbology wrote:At this point the only thi g you can do is start taking it apart to check the pump and solenoid, or call Breville. If it was me, I would do both. Get Breville to fix it, but also take the opportunity to tear into it a bit.

They were contacted a few times. I sent some video as well. In fact, they just responded again five minutes ago and have offered to either service or replace the machine for a second time. My choice. Not sure which is ideal.

pcrussell50

#32: Post by pcrussell50 »

Valo_Soul wrote: They were contacted a few times. I sent some video as well. In fact, they just responded again five minutes ago and have offered to either service or replace the machine for a second time. My choice. Not sure which is ideal.
I've been here on HB since before the BDB came out, and then was a launch customer for it back in Fall 2011 when it did come out. I've been on the BDB threads here, CG, and the Aussie one as well, and I've never seen or heard of the problem you're having. Definitely a weird one. Breville owes you a properly working machine. But I'm with symbology/Allen, that you owe it to yourself to take this opportunity to learn what you can (and share any interesting results with us :wink: )

Try this if you haven't: take off the shower screen and dispersion disc that is under it. Make sure the disc isn't plugged or broken in half. If it's not, sacrifice 18g of coffe and try pulling a shot without them in place. You might have to place the silicone group gasket on the portafilter as you lock it in, to make sure it is proper in place. You can use the Allen/hex key that comes in the tool try.

Report back.

-Peter
LMWDP #553

Valo_Soul

#33: Post by Valo_Soul »

pcrussell50 wrote:I've been here on HB since before the BDB came out, and then was a launch customer for it back in Fall 2011 when it did come out. I've been on the BDB threads here, CG, and the Aussie one as well, and I've never seen or heard of the problem you're having. Definitely a weird one. Breville owes you a properly working machine. But I'm with symbology/Allen, that you owe it to yourself to learn what you can (and share any interesting results with us :wink: j

Try this if haven't: take off the shower screen and dispersion disc that is under it. Make sure the disc isn't plugged or broken in half. If it's not, sacrifice 18g of coffe and try pulling a shot without them in place. You might have to place the silicone group gasket on the portafilter as you lock it in, to make sure it is proper in place.

Report back.

-Peter
Thanks for chiming in, Peter. I've already removed the shower screen and disc, and nothing looks abnormal there whatsoever. Unfortunately I don't have any coffee left as of tonight, and I'm a bit opposed to buying a new bag that I won't be able to brew :(

It truly is an odd and seemingly unheard of phenomenon. I wish I had recorded the one I ground incredibly coarse which somehow choked itself as well. It's like a magic trick.

pcrussell50

#34: Post by pcrussell50 »

Valo_Soul wrote: It truly is an odd and seemingly unheard of phenomenon. I wish I had recorded the one I ground incredibly coarse which somehow choked itself as well. It's like a magic trick.
We can do some reasoning our way through the brew path a bit later when I get some time (at work right now). But the pressure gauge is plumbed in at the base of the group complex. So whatever is choking the flow is between the entrance to the group and the puck.

More later...

-Peter
LMWDP #553

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yakster
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#35: Post by yakster »

Have you tried the nickel test to make sure you aren't overdosing the basket? Maybe the puck is swelling during the extraction to the point that it's choking the machine.

More pictures or videos of your routine, once you get more coffee to try, would help troubleshoot this. It seems like an issue that's narrowed down to inside the portafilter, I'm thinking dose, grind, basket.
-Chris

LMWDP # 272

Valo_Soul

#36: Post by Valo_Soul »

pcrussell50 wrote:We can do some reasoning our way through the brew path a bit later when I get some time (at work right now). But the pressure gauge is plumbed in at the base of the group complex. So whatever is choking the flow is between the entrance to the group and the puck.

More later...

-Peter

Interesting. Breville has said they will replace it, but unfortunately their techs don't share service info with Customer Service, so I'll be unable to find out what ends up being defective or broken. I may have a day to tinker with it before the new one arrives though.

pcrussell50

#37: Post by pcrussell50 »

Valo_Soul wrote: Interesting. Breville has said they will replace it, but unfortunately their techs don't share service info with Customer Service, so I'll be unable to find out what ends up being defective or broken. I may have a day to tinker with it before the new one arrives though.

So whatever the problem is, it can only be between the pressure tap for the gauge, and the group itself. So whatever it is, is confined to a small area that we can't see the inside of, like group complex. Or the puck itself becoming compacted and choking the flow as suggested. Though I've not actually seen that happen myself. Did you say it runs normally holding steady seven bar when you use a pressurized basket? If you happen upon some more coffee, even some cheap Maxwell house or grocery store brand, try pulling a shot without the screen or dispersion disc. If the problem does not exist there, then put back the dispersion disc but not the screen, and pull another. And so on.

Just some general systems knowledge: If the solenoid were to de energize and the pump keeps running (this would be a wiring fault unless you set it up that way on purpose like I did), you would get no flow even though the pump is running, BUT you would also read no pressure. IIRC, you were saying that you were getting climbing pressure and declining/no flow, correct?

-Peter
LMWDP #553

Valo_Soul

#38: Post by Valo_Soul »

pcrussell50 wrote: So whatever the problem is, it can only be between the pressure tap for the gauge, and the group itself. So whatever it is, is confined to a small area that we can't see the inside of, like group complex. Or the puck itself becoming compacted and choking the flow as suggested. Though I've not actually seen that happen myself. Did you say it runs normally holding steady seven bar when you use a pressurized basket? If you happen upon some more coffee, even some cheap Maxwell house or grocery store brand, try pulling a shot without the screen or dispersion disc. If the problem does not exist there, then put back the dispersion disc but not the screen, and pull another. And so on.

Just some general systems knowledge: If the solenoid were to de energize and the pump keeps running (this would be a wiring fault unless you set it up that way on purpose like I did), you would get no flow even though the pump is running, BUT you would also read no pressure. IIRC, you were saying that you were getting climbing pressure and declining/no flow, correct?

-Peter

Yes, from what I noted the couple of times I checked with a pressurized basket, it holds around 6 bar.

I've tried shots with the stock Breville screen, swapped out for the IMS screen and back again, and it occurs every time. I've also checked the dispersion disk and areas inside the visible part of the group for cracks/damage and see absolutely nothing.

"you were saying that you were getting climbing pressure and declining/no flow, correct?" Yes, exactly. Even when I grind extremely coarse.

Valo_Soul

#39: Post by Valo_Soul »

yakster wrote:Have you tried the nickel test to make sure you aren't overdosing the basket? Maybe the puck is swelling during the extraction to the point that it's choking the machine.

More pictures or videos of your routine, once you get more coffee to try, would help troubleshoot this. It seems like an issue that's narrowed down to inside the portafilter, I'm thinking dose, grind, basket.
It's definitely not the dose or grind. Unless my 18g VST basket suddenly doesn't work... could something cause that? The holes are all perfectly clear, unblocked... always kept very clean. It hasn't been dropped or damaged.

*Edit*. Just checked with a 15g VST and it did the same thing - Not the basket causing the issue :( Breville is sending a new machine.

arok817

#40: Post by arok817 »

Not sure whether to start a new thread, but I'll try jumping in here first as my issue started with a similar experience.

Two days ago, I was pulling some shots and it seemed my machine was choking out. This was surprising for the BDB but happened often with my old Gaggia Classic and I had been dialing in my grind recently, so I started stepping back the grind. After 4 double shots that all choked out, I finally realized it probably wasn't the grind and tried running a double shot without the portafilter in. There was nothing more than a few drips coming out of the brew head and I was unable to build any pressure with a backflush disc in.

For context: I had recently had an issue after a descale where my steam reservoir had somehow tricked itself to in self-preservation from overheating and I went through a whole process (maybe from Reddit?) to disconnect the sensor, force fill the steam boiler and then unplug, reconnect the sensor, plugged it in and allowed it to refill itself. It took a few tries but worked and I learned a lot about the new vs old descale recommendation as well as the machine itself.

So based on that, I drained out the brew boiler via the descale process and let it refill itself. Once it started refilling itself, the temp dropped down into the 160 degree zone and never regained temp, losing a few degrees actually (Traegar grill flashbacks...aghhh!). I decided to shut it down and let it cool off. After doing so, it now consistently is pumping itself full for inordinate amounts of time and never gets above 70 degrees, maybe 72 at most if it is left on and the whole machine warms up enough (which I am not continuing to avoid frying anything out).

I'm wondering if anyone has any advice on where to start when I open this thing up tonight? Brew head solenoid, brew boiler fuse, full descale cycle? Anything notable to look for? I'm not sure if this is a machine issue or if (based on the first choking process) if some bit of scale clogged a line and now nothing is getting into the boiler..? Any insight or advice would be greatly appreciated as a starting point. As the kind individual above said, I may put in a ticket but see what I can do until my return box arrives (been there, done that) :roll: .

EDIT: I started a new thread but cannot delete this post. Sorry for the double post. A moderator can feel free to delete this, if appropriate.