Eric E61 Thermometer Flushing on Rocket Appartamento Temperature Questions - Page 2

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pallen

#11: Post by pallen »

This is also consistent with what I get on my Expobar Lever. I've found that I need to flush roughly 6oz of water for the long initial cooling flush.

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slybarman

#12: Post by slybarman »

allemania wrote:This may be tangential since I've got a Profitec Pro 500 with Eric's thermometer. However, given that they are both heat exchangers with similar boiler sizes (I believe) and E61 group heads, perhaps my experience will help. I very thoroughly read Eric's instruction's and explanation of the flush and go technique and the most important fact I came away with was that the temperature at the puck during extraction was approximately 3 to 5 degrees higher than what the thermometer displays during the extraction. I use a bottomless portafilter and dose 18 grams. My shot duration is in the 25 to 30 second range timed from lifting the brew lever. The group is usually idling at 204 to 205 Celsius. My process and observation is as follows:

1. Flush the group until the flash boiling completely stops and then continue to flush for 5 to 6 seconds. The thermometer peaks at 210 to 211 (corresponds to the end of flash boiling) and then drops gradually to 206 to 205 Celsius at which point I stop flushing.

2. I've already prepped my portafilter with coffee so I wait about 20 seconds, lock in the portafilter and place my scale with cup beneath it. That takes another 5 to 10 seconds (I'm estimating) and then I pull my shot. The initial temp prior as the puck begins to be saturated with water (and thus no actual flow through the group) is around 200 Celsius. Once the initial flow starts (after 5 seconds, approximately, assuming I'm having a good barista day!) the temp hovers around 197.5 to 198 C and then gradually decreases to around 195 C by the end of the shot, output in the cup being around 36 grams. Assuming Eric's observation of actual brew temp being 3 to 5 degrees higher than the temp on the display, that gives me a brew temp beginning slightly at or above 200 C and ending slightly below 200 C.

I recently had a roast that I felt tasted better at a lower brew temp, so I would lock in the portafilter immediately after flushing (so perhaps a 5 to 10 second interval) and the brew temp is noticeably lower, starting at 195 and ending around 193. My point is that use the flush and go method and change the post flush interval to affect brew temp.

Hope this helps.

I realize you that given you have a an Appartmento the numbers may vary slightly but I assume that the basic technique would yield similar dynamics.
I think I am confused. I believe the temp on the display is 3-5 degrees higher than the temp at the puck. 205 on the display roughly equates to pulling a shot at 200.

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TreCime

#13: Post by TreCime » replying to slybarman »

For the flush and go method, that is correct.

allemania

#14: Post by allemania »

Hi Slybarman.

I don't blame you for being confused. Here a quote directly from Eric in another thread:
erics wrote:Lots of info is contained in the manual for the thermometer. For sure, the Profitec is a flush-n-go machine wherein the temperature displayed by the thermometer will be 3-5 degrees BELOW that of the water presented to the coffee.
Skål,

Eric S.
The video posted in this earlier in this thread, while very nicely done, seems to have it wrong and thus is brewing at a very high temp. I read and reread Eric's manual that came with my thermometer and when I came across his post in another thread it cemented it for me.

Here's a link to thread where I found his post:

Profitec Pro 500 cooling flush stabilization

Hope that clears it up.

Marcus

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slybarman

#15: Post by slybarman »

allemania wrote:Hi Slybarman.

I don't blame you for being confused. Here a quote directly from Eric in another thread:


The video posted in this earlier in this thread, while very nicely done, seems to have it wrong and thus is brewing at a very high temp. I read and reread Eric's manual that came with my thermometer and when I came across his post in another thread it cemented it for me.

Here's a link to thread where I found his post:

Profitec Pro 500 cooling flush stabilization

Hope that clears it up.

Marcus
I went back and re-read Eric's posts and instructions and I believe you were correct. Somewhere in the last few years I forgot what-was-what between flush-n-go and flush-n-wait.

Max1411

#16: Post by Max1411 »

Hey guys, I found that thread searching for some information according to an issue with my appartamento. I use a thermometer similar to Eric's. After performing a short flush (2 seconds), per example for cleaning the shower screen, the idle temperature of my machine drops from 205° to around 195° and would stay there forever until I pull a espresso shot, backflush or perform a very long flush. Anyone else having that problem?

By the way:
My dealer cleaned and descaled the whole thermosiphon system and was deburring some edges. The result is the same according my issue, but now I have higher idle temperatures and I have to do a very long flush to get the shot temperature down, even with a pstat setting of 0.8-1. Before, when there was a bit of scale in it, I always performed a 5 seconds flush and got a shot very close to the idle temperature. To change the shot temperature, I didn't vary the flush, just the pstat setting. That was very replicaple. Recovery time between the shots was somewhere between 3-4 minutes.
I liked the behavior of the machine with a bit of scale much better. Mayby a smaller thermosiphon restrictor would have been better. Mine has 3mm in diameter, maybe someone could measure his, I read here, that US machines come with a 2.5mm restrictor.

achosid

#17: Post by achosid »

I've been doing flush and wait on mine, flushing down to 197F with the portafilter in, pulling it, dosing, distributing, and then pulling the shot. Has worked well for me. I had to drop boiler pressure down to 1.0 to get the flushes to take not an eternity. They still take some time and this thread has me considering trying flush and go.