Considering the PID upgrade for a synchronika, any reason I shouldn't? I'm having a steam boiler recovery issue that I'm hoping this might improve? Anyone else had slow recovery on the ecm's?


...split from Installation tips for ECM Synchronika / Profitec Pro 700 steam upgrade by moderator...

In my experience with the Synchronika at a local cars and coffee event, the drink-to-drink time is around 90 seconds. That's not surprising given it's a 110V espresso machine with two boilers and a heavy group. I haven't clocked the steam boiler recovery time, but I'd guess it's around 30 to 45 seconds, depending on the drink. The PID upgrade raised the max steam temperature and that added "oomph" to the rolling action; I haven't noticed a significant change in recovery time (I didn't measure before/after and wish that I had...).

If you changed any of the PID settings, that could lead to slower recovery times. You can double check based on the Profitec Pro 700 Review since they should have the same controller (see Clive Coffee's ECM Synchronika - Updated PID Settings for the later version).

Agreed the recovery time chained 4+ drinks is probably about 90 seconds on 15 amp. For drinks 3 and under, the recovery time is much closer to 15-30 seconds. For my daily demand of 2 milk drinks in the morning, the recovery time is certainly faster than I can grind the next dose. But yes, when I've made multiple drinks for guests after dinner, once you hit 4 and 5, you have to let the machine catch up.

As HB points out, really any dual boiler machine on 15 amps is not going to have a recovery time capable of chaining drinks at a commercial pace. The boilers have to take turns drawing power on 15 amp. If you have a 20 amp circuit, they can both run at the same time drastically improving your recovery and start up times. If your home is relatively new, it might have a 20 amp circuit already and worth switching. If not, they can be hard to add depending on your current wiring and proximity to the breaker.

If you are having a slow boiler recovery for just 2 drinks, there might be something else at play. The PID probably isn't going to fix that, it won't heat water any faster, just hotter. But since it is producing more pressure, you will have more steam at your disposal, so you will depend on recovery less. But again, recovery really depends on how many drinks you are making.

I recently install the PID upgrade. I also ordered with the 4 hole steam tip from Clive Coffee. The tip was backordered, so after they called to discuss, sent me a substitute that was available and " would fit."

After watching the WLL videos, the install was very easy. However, some PID programming is required, which was far more time consuming for this aged, non-tech person. No directions were included and I needed to search out. Clive's PID setting were helpful, as was the WLL videos, once I figured out all the weird numbers were in Celsius.

My initial reaction was it was a waste of $200. Didn't actually time steaming before and after, but didn't seem much different. Also, the steam tip would drip water for some time after the steam was shut off, which was annoying when the wand wasn't directly over the drip tray. I began to suspect the replacement tip was the culprit. I replaced the original 2 hole tip. Issue is the the ECM tip has a place for the plastic tube to fit and some O-rings to make tight fit around the tube. The substitute tip had no place for the no burn tube so just smashed over the plastic slowing steam flow and directing condensate up the wand, dripping out after the steam shut off. Stick with ECM tips!

WOW, what a change. Steam clearly at a higher pressure. Again not timed, but steaming time was roughly half. I steam milk for two 20oz. latte's each morning. My routine is to start steaming one picture and when stretched, set it down with tip submerged and start grinding and doing 4 doubles. I used to get the first double done and prep for the second ( I have a slow grinder) when the first pitcher would finish. Now I can't get the first double prepped when I need to switch pitchers. Usually the second pitcher is done before I start the second double.

However, they seem to have changed some programming in the PID. Previously, the steam boiler would heat up to 255. When I started steaming, the temp would drop to 251 or so and the heater would maintain that temp, unless the boiler called for water, when the pump would run momentarily and the temp would drop to 242. Then it would start heating up until back to about 252.

With the upgrade, steam temp starts about 272. When steaming, the temp starts dropping and gets down to mid 250, when the pump usually starts and then temps go down to as low ar 238. It seems to require water more quickly than before, likely due to the higher pressure and temps. The heater comes on but temps don't return to the 250 level and steaming slows. But as noted above overall steaming is still much improved over original. The milk is much more agitated than before as well, but still getting the new flow down, as foam seems to dissipate and settle down more quickly than before, like its larger bubbles and not as fine micro foam.

Just following up on this post to let you know where I landed.

In the end my recovery issue was due to fill probe scale that needed to be cleaned off. My dirty fill probe was allowing the steam boiler to get too full and therefore not enough room was left for steam with too much water in the tank. After a disassembly and cleaning recovery is back and steam pressure is much better.

I discussed the PID change with Clive techs and honestly they didn't think this upgrade was worth it in my situation. I have no problem getting excellent micro foam with my current set-up. Glad to hear some other HB users are enjoying this upgrade but I'm holding on it for now.