ECM Synchronika/Profitec Flow Control Kit - Page 15

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Nunas (original poster)
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#141: Post by Nunas (original poster) »

You'd have to ask them, but I'd bet they change it out. I'd ask them to send you the old spring and even the mushroom. You probably paid for them :wink:

cibby

#142: Post by cibby »

When the flow control is rotated fully open, is that the same flow rate as a machine that doesn't have the flow control kit installed? Or is it greater than that and there's a position of the dial where it's close to the stock flow rate? I've been wondering of fully open is possibly too much water flowing and potentially introducing some inconsistency.

Nunas (original poster)
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#143: Post by Nunas (original poster) » replying to cibby »

No, wide open (about two turns) is far more flow than a stock mushroom. The equivalent water debit flow rate of a normal machine on most FCD machines is in the range of 1.25 to 1.5 turns. If you still have your stock mushroom, just reinstall it, run a measured amount of water out of the group with no basket, and take note of the time (or run for time and measure the water). Then you can repeat with the FCD installed, turning the control open in quarter-turn increments until you find the right spot for your machine. Frankly, though, there's no need to do this. Just mess with the FCD until you get what you want in the cup. It's what's in the cup that counts, not some arbitrary setting/time/grind...and so on. :wink:

cibby

#144: Post by cibby »

Thank you! Very helpful. I'm fairly new to all of this and not always sure if what I'm getting in the cup is what I should be getting in the cup :). I've been experiencing a lot of stalled shots when full turned open which makes sense to me that there's just too much flow right away, the puck swells possibly, and it stalls.

I had the Flow Control installed by WLL and don't have the original hardware. If I want to try to get more precise on where in that 1.25-1.5 range is the standard flow, is there a general range of what that standard flow rate is?

Nunas (original poster)
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#145: Post by Nunas (original poster) »

cibby wrote:Thank you! Very helpful. I'm fairly new to all of this and not always sure if what I'm getting in the cup is what I should be getting in the cup :). I've been experiencing a lot of stalled shots when full turned open which makes sense to me that there's just too much flow right away, the puck swells possibly, and it stalls. I had the Flow Control installed by WLL and don't have the original hardware. If I want to try to get more precise on where in that 1.25-1.5 range is the standard flow, is there a general range of what that standard flow rate is?
I used to have this written down somewhere, but I can't find it. So, I put my stock mushroom back in the Synchronika and ran a 10-second water debit. It's 115 ml/10 seconds, so, 11.5 ml/second. Bear in mind, this is for my Synchronika. If you've fiddled with the pump pressure adjustment (I have not), as they say in the car business, YMMV :wink: So, knowing this, create a water debit table for your machine to find out where to set the FCD for "normal".

As for your stalled shots, I advise keeping the control about 1.5 turns, then dialing in your grinder to get the flow time you seek.

Once you achieve a good normal shot with the FCD not moved and set to about normal water debit, then begin to experiment with profiling. For example, open the control slowly and watch the manometer; when you get to about 3-bar, move the e61 lever to the middle position and wait a short while for preinfusion (pressure will slowly drop). Eventually, a few drops of coffee will probably emerge (or you will judge that it's enough soaking), at which time you raise the lever to the upper position and open the FCD some more until it stops rising so much (should get to nearly pump pressure) as you open it (you won't likely get even to 1.5 turns). Sometime around mid shot, begin to close the FCD to drop the pressure a couple of bar. This profile roughly simulates raising the lever on a spring lever machine, preinfusing until coffee begins to drip, then letting the spring extract the shot (on spring levers, the pressure drops off as the spring moves).

I hope this helps
-Maurice

heytchap

#146: Post by heytchap » replying to Nunas »

You put the stock mushroom in and didn't replace the bottom spring? Stock flow is around 8ml/s for me. Yours sounds high. I know the spring only counts for pressure when the shot is pulling but I'm interested in knowing if you reverted that as well.

Nunas (original poster)
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#147: Post by Nunas (original poster) » replying to heytchap »

I no longer use the spring that comes with the FCD kit. So, I didn't have to change out the spring to do the test, as it was already there. As for the flow I measured, it is what it is :mrgreen:

PIXIllate
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#148: Post by PIXIllate »

A rotary pump will give you a stock flow rate of about 11-12ml/sec.
A vibe pump will give you a stock flow rate of 7-8ml/sec.

This is one of the major differences between pump types and to be honest it probably is to the advantage of the vibe pump for most users as a flow rate of 11ml/sec that you have no control over is going to be merciless on your puck prep.

heytchap

#149: Post by heytchap » replying to PIXIllate »

Ah. That's very interesting. Thank you.