ECM Synchronika/Profitec Flow Control Kit - Page 8

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MindTheGap76

#71: Post by MindTheGap76 »

JayBeck wrote:Do is a test, please. Turn the knob fully open and turn on the brew lever letting the water gointo a cup on a scale. Tell us how much water comes out over 10 seconds. Repeat this test at 3PM, 6 PM, 9PM, and fully closed.

Thanks!
I will do this (probably this weekend) and report back.

Nunas
Supporter ♡

#72: Post by Nunas »

I'm asking to see how consistent it is.
Why would this matter? It's a needle valve on a lead screw; a specific flow rate at a given angle isn't particularly important, as the kit comes with a gauge. The only important thing about this kit is that the user should be able to vary the aperture of the needle valve over a useable angle. Isn't this a bit like the comments we see on grinders, like "what setting do you use for espresso on your model-x grinder"?
User experience is varied on the ECM kit.
I have seen only one post that might indicate a defective valve, as the user was unable to regulate flow at all; fully off and fully on ranged over only a few degrees of handle swing. I've also seen some new users report problems, which were clearly due to misunderstanding of how this kit works.

pacala

#73: Post by pacala »

I had the kit installed for couple of weeks and could not get the desired effect: the pressure stayed between 8 and 10 bars no matter how much I open the valve.
I checked the open flow and it looked OK - smooth from 1.2 ml/s to 8 ml/s from fully closed to fully open.

In the last couple of days I changed the grind to coarser setting. To my surprise I'm getting a much larger range on group pressure, although the extraction seems to be a bit too faster, 18-20 sec for 1:2 ratio.

Curious if other people had to adjust the grinder settings after installing the kit, finer or coarser?

JayBeck

#74: Post by JayBeck »

Nunas wrote:Why would this matter? It's a needle valve on a lead screw; a specific flow rate at a given angle isn't particularly important, as the kit comes with a gauge. The only important thing about this kit is that the user should be able to vary the aperture of the needle valve over a useable angle. Isn't this a bit like the comments we see on grinders, like "what setting do you use for espresso on your model-x grinder"?
I have seen only one post that might indicate a defective valve, as the user was unable to regulate flow at all; fully off and fully on ranged over only a few degrees of handle swing. I've also seen some new users report problems, which were clearly due to misunderstanding of how this kit works.
Not all needle valves are created equal, that's why. I'm curious as to the threading and pitch of this valve compares to Bianca's and Jake's because that makes all the difference in the world to how precise adjustments can be. Without precision, the device is useless.

Speedplay/Aldo's tests indicate similar threading to Bianca's. This would be a great HB bench review (Lelit vs ECM needle design).

Nunas
Supporter ♡

#75: Post by Nunas »

I'm curious as to the threading and pitch of this valve compares to Bianca's and Jake's because that makes all the difference in the world to how precise adjustments can be.
Aha, now I see what you're concerned about. Precision is not a problem with the ECM kit (don't know about the Bianca). It has a full 2+ turns from stop to stop. In terms of range compared to a standard e61, it is about 1.5 turns from full off to open to "stock e61" water debit. While watching the pressure gauge during a pull, I can easily move the pressure up and down smoothly without it being "twitchy". From what I've read about the Bianca, it would be similar. However, the Bianca kit changes out the preinfusion spring, while the ECM kit does not. With the ECM kit (and I guess the Bianca kit if one leaves the old spring in place), the effect of the valve if set in any position and left there is to vary the amount of preinfusion. Wide open, the preinfusion rod moves swiftly with a little squeak. just cracked open preinfusion can take almost a minute (I've never timed it..but it's plenty long enough).

MindTheGap76

#76: Post by MindTheGap76 »

JayBeck wrote:Do is a test, please. Turn the knob fully open and turn on the brew lever letting the water gointo a cup on a scale. Tell us how much water comes out over 10 seconds. Repeat this test at 3PM, 6 PM, 9PM, and fully closed.

Thanks!
I will call 0° the flow control device pointing straight toward the back of the machine. I will call 90° rotating the flow control device a quarter turn counter-clockwise.

I started by just casually closing the flow control device to what seemed like a natural stopping point, which was a position of about -5° (i.e., a little to the right of straight back). I then realized that it could go a little farther if I tried, to about -10°. I used the built-in 10-second shot timer and no portafilter. My pump pressure is a bit over 8 bars.

-10°: 3.5g
-5°: 7g
90°: 35g
180°: 52g
270°: 60g
360°: 74g
450°: 93g
540°: 102g
630°: 226g
675°: 181g (all the way open)

I only ran through this exercise once. I have not plumbed in yet, so I am using distilled water with 3rd wave packets, and I don't have much spare water on hand. I can repeat this when I get more water if there is interest. I suspect the low value at all the way open is because of the boiler running low on water.

Anyone know what the "stock" ECM value should be, roughly? I would like to set my flow control there until I can pull consistently good shots.

JayBeck

#77: Post by JayBeck » replying to MindTheGap76 »

Thanks!

Are you able to go all the way in a circle without the knob hitting the machine?

MindTheGap76

#78: Post by MindTheGap76 » replying to JayBeck »

Yes, otherwise I could not have measured at 360 degrees.

JayBeck

#79: Post by JayBeck » replying to MindTheGap76 »

I didn't realize it could do this out of the box. Very cool

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naked-portafilter

#80: Post by naked-portafilter »

I spend most of my time in the lever section but I finally could install the flow control kit on our new Pro700. I tried to mimic the Pro800 pressure profile (grey graph in the background). It works surprisingly easy: