ECM Puristika owner experience

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Ursego

#1: Post by Ursego »

In this topic I was deciding which machine with an external reservoir to buy - Bellezza Bellona or ECM Puristika. UPDATE: finally, I bought ECM Puristika (that's why I am posting here) with flow control mod installed in the store:





These are pictures with the large paddle bought later separately here (write to the seller that you want the paddle only, if you don't need the whole flow control device). The small ball, initially installed in the store, can be seen in this picture.

I want to correct a couple of inaccuracies in my post where I listed the pros and cons of each machine. I wrote about Bellezza Bellona:
The water from the OPV drains into the tray, which means it will need to be emptied more often.
In fact, the tray of Bellezza Bellona is much bigger than ECM Puristika (seems like at least 50% more volume), it doesn't need to be emptied more often. The problem is different: in Bellezza Bellona, you have to fill the water reservoir more often. So, in any case, Puristika wins.

The second inaccuracy I made was that I wrote that E61 group has real pre-infusion (under low pressure). It doesn't (since Puristika is not plumbable). In spite of this, pre-infusion can be done with E61 flow control, so Puristika wins again. However, I am a fan of dark roast, so the lack of pre-infusion would not be a problem for me.

In fact, I was about to buy the Bellezza Bellona - it was at a big discount (open box). But my index finger refused to press the mouse button to click on "Add to Cart"! I realized I didn't want Bellezza Bellona. It wasn't because of logical reasoning, and it wasn't because of its cons - I just didn't want it. :twisted: I wanted ECM Puristika! :roll: Fortunately, it was also on discount.

OFFTOP ABOUT FLOW CONTROL:

The flow control does make a huge difference in extraction! First of all, you can make a long pre-infusion (Slayer shot) before the first drops appear using a very fine grind (with the normal E61 pre-wetting the water simply would not penetrate the puck). This reduces channeling and extracts more flavor from light roasted beans.
I usually use the blooming profile, which is a kind of advanced pre-infusion. With the regular pre-infusion, there is unevenness (the top layers take longer to soak than the bottom layers), and the blooming shot eliminates that unevenness (and also acts longer increasing the effect). Here's the algorithm:
  • Start brewing with the faucet completely open.
  • At the moment when the pressure in the group starts to go up (on my machine it happens after 5 seconds), completely shut off the flow. This starts "blooming," a term that comes from brewing in V60.
  • When 35 seconds are on the timer (i.e. 30 seconds have passed), open the faucet to the maximum (or to the desired pressure).
  • Perform the usual, 23-28 seconds, extraction.
Another useful profile (especially for dark roast) is ramp down / declining / "spring lever". The algorithm is simple:
  • Start brewing with the faucet completely open.
  • As soon as the maximum pressure is reached (or after 10-15 seconds after that), slowly and smoothly close the faucet, thus lowering the flow.
The fact is that during the brewing process, more and more coffee substances end up in the cup, and, accordingly, less and less of them remain in the basket. In other words, more and more solid particles are washed out during the pouring time. Including the finest particles, which initially filled the space between the coarse particles and sort of "cemented" the coffee. Because of this, the puck gradually degrades and breaks down, becoming loose and porous. The same constant flow of water still continues to affect the puck, but it is no longer able to resist it as effectively as in the beginning. This phenomenon is particularly intensified in the last half and especially the third of the extraction. Because of this, we observe the following troubles:
  • The tendency to form channels increases considerably.
  • The stream gradually becomes blond - coffee is extracted less and less, and more and more simply diluted with water.
The solution to the problem is obvious - gradually weaken the flow during the pouring.

I almost always use the blooming profile, after which I immediately apply the declining profile.
Here's what profiling additionally gives:
1. You can still get a tasty espresso with incorrect grind size (when you would have had a sink shot without flow control).
2. Even cheap beans from supermarket make a pretty tasty espresso.


...split from ECM Puristika "coming soon"? by moderator...

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Ursego (original poster)

#2: Post by Ursego (original poster) »

A couple of videos that have not yet been published in this thread yet:

Shakespeare
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#3: Post by Shakespeare »

'"Flow control caught my attention because it allows to make "spring lever shots". They are especially effective with dark roast beans (in which flavors are more easily extracted from the coffee). The physics of the process is simple (in case anyone doesn't know). During the time of brewing (especially when extraction is nearing its end), the coffee tablet degrades and becomes friable (because the more time passes, the more substances are already washed out of it). As the constant pressure of 9 bar continues to act on the puck (which is no longer able to resist the flow as effectively as in the beginning), the tendency to form channels increases. Therefore, there is a recommendation to reduce the pressure during the brewing.""

Ursego < Congratulations on your purchase... in Canada... I am still disappointed in the USA, ....ECM machine distributors...
ECM Germany has offered this 'Cream' model to the US distributors and after more than 2 months they still haven't offered this model for sale.
Canada and Europe sells this model...But not in the USA.

I would like to here how you feel about the ability to alternate and mix between the pressure profiling adjustment knob and the flow profiling e61 knob..
It would seem the adjustment of the blue ECM pressure profiling adjustment will have a dramatic effect on your decision to what degree you perform flow profiling. what's your experience? It would seem very confusing.

I did like the video, they taped it early when the first Puristka came to the market...So...There were some obvious mistakes..such as assuming the e61 group on the machine wasn't a genuine group; but a cheap copy.

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Jeff
Team HB

#4: Post by Jeff »

The adjustable OPV is not a "pressure-profiling" knob. It is intended for occasional changes to the OPV without opening the case, not changes during a shot.

Shakespeare
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#5: Post by Shakespeare replying to Jeff »

I assumed that it was considered an option to use the OPV knob during the espresso extraction since I watched the CEO of ECM actually use the adjustment control while making an espresso. This is the video from Espresso TV at the Milan Coffee show. Look at approximately 2.40 in the video.
And there was another review of this adjustment again being used ...Maybe, it would be OK if not used frequently and not too aggressively.

And it is a 'pressure profiling adjustment knob' that is what is performs..it adjusts the pressure from the pump. To let you adjust the brew pressure for different extractions. For example to have a less or more brew pressure depending on the level of roasted beans used.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7FoILZSLpo

Also at 9.08 in this video ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDOQBBhrugo

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Jeff
Team HB

#6: Post by Jeff »

Official manual, rather than a salesman or YouTube promoter:

https://clivecoffee.imagerelay.com/shar ... 02199dcc5c


Shakespeare
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#7: Post by Shakespeare »

Jeff:
That wasn't a Salesman using the Puristka ,,
But was "Wolfgang Hauck, the company's founder and head of ECM Manufacture GmbH,...

And, I am not a dummy. I have been following every step of the development and delivery of the Puristika for Nine months
I understood before, that this was printed by ECM in its manual to protect against being misused and it's warranty.

It is obvious to ECM and others. If you put a Big Blue knob in front of the machine to perform pressure profiling and promote the heck out of it...
then it will be used..
It is obvious that it shouldn't be used often or haphazardly
But it was offered to be an additional profiling device for the Puristika. And to use it for those special circumstances, It is perfectly alright.

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Ursego (original poster)

#8: Post by Ursego (original poster) »

Shakespeare wrote:I assumed that it was considered an option to use the OPV knob during the espresso extraction since I watched the CEO of ECM actually use the adjustment control while making an espresso.
I saw that fragment, and was surprised. Perhaps the CEO is too far removed from such details, since this is a financial role, not a technical one. Alas, many early reviews confuse the OPV external regulator with the flow control (wishful thinking :lol: ). This knob allows you to change the OPV valve pressure between 8 and 12 bar before the shot, and is useful either for experimentation or for increasing the initial pressure at a spring lever profile (as this video says, you can start at 12 bar and even more; in this video, the "spring lever" shot starts from 10). Hoffman said in this video that 9 bar is the average pressure at the lever machines, not the initial pressure (so the initial pressure is clearly higher). He assumed that this average value was originally could be taken as the pressure of the non-lever machines (that's how the magic number 9 was born):
Traditionally, we brew at about 9 bars of pressure at the pump, and there's a couple of explanations for that. The first is the kind of myth version of it, which is that 9 bars was considered to be the kind of average pressure of an old school lever shot. Not sure how true that is, but it's a nice story. The second version is that you tend to see a peak of flow at around 9 bars. Below 9 bars, if you're grinding very fine for espresso, the flow rate is a little bit lower because it's just less pressure pushing the water through. Above 9 bars, your flow rate slows again, because you compress the cake so much that it's very hard for water to get through.

RedPanda

#9: Post by RedPanda »

mmm I think your thinking wrong position being CFO is the "financial officer".... CEO is the leader of the company which is derived from "executive officer" I had the same problem until I got down the non-abbreviation terms which I dont confuse the two now.

Anyways the CEO should have at least knowledge of how everything works given he needs to deal with shareholders, company guests, and likely do product demonstrations when dealing with peers and near peers at company events.

If he didn't know how to use it he wont touch it and just pull a shot straight forward. He prob has more knowledge than all of us for this product in question given he prob had a grand hands-on tour from his staff/baristas/designers from the design phase up to product release......


Now if he pulls a good shot or not to standards here?.... *shrugs*


(edit: sentence and more neutral point talk style)

baldheadracing
Team HB

#10: Post by baldheadracing »

Jeff wrote:It will be interesting to see where else that OPV shows up
I just saw it in the new Profitec Go (the ECM Casa V SBDU with the "ring" group, but the Profitec Go adds a PID).
RedPanda wrote:mmm CEO is the leader of the company (your thinking CFO), he should have at least knowledge of how everything works given he needs to deal with shareholders, company guests, and likely do product demonstrations when dealing with peers and near peers at company events. ...
I didn't hear any contradiction between what he stated in the video - including what he said after he demonstrated the effect of turning the knob - and the page with warnings in the manual that Jeff posted above, i.e., the OPV/expansion valve is not designed nor intended for regular adjustment of pressure during shots.
-"Good quality brings happiness as you use it" - Nobuho Miya, Kamasada