ECM Synchronika direct plumbed. Using Clive homeland water filter with low TDS Portland water.

Had the machine powered off for a month for a trip, then was doing drip brew on return. Just fired back up yesterday. The espresso is coming out cool now. Tried a sip after a pull and it was not hot, not at all like usual. Lukewarm. I checked and the shot temperature reading was only around 120 - and only 30 seconds after a pull.

Pulled water direct from brewhead and it was reading around 170F on my thermo pen despite the PID being set at 199F. This is after a couple hours of heating up. I know to expect some temp drop but this seems like a lot of heat loss...

Steam boiler pressure is normal and high, with temp out of hot water wand around 192F. So all seems normal on that side. This is just the brew group.

Pretty bummed about now. Any ideas outside of a faulty thermo that needs servicing? Any ideas as to why this happen and if it could be connected to leaving the machine sit for a month?

1. What's a normal temp drop from brewhead to a cup?

2. Any chance this flow control related (too fast or slow a flow?). Or maybe too finely ground puck with too high of flow pushing not enough liquid volume through fast enough? (Ie a 1:1 ristretto at too fine grind, too high flow, in 40 seconds)?

3. Not enough line pressure from plumbed in?

I fiddled about for a while - changed PID temp up, then back down. Changed flow rate. Ground finer. I got another shot that was hotter. Water in pitcher from brewhead closer to 180F now. Hmm.

4. Apparently I can set the ECM PID well over 212 boiling (208 is boiling at my elevation). I didn't know that. Settings to 220F gives me 190F in the cup from brewhead. But it makes a funny noise (steam?). I set it back down to 199F. But now I'm wondering if I've had my brew PID set too low the whole time?

I'm not convinced yet something isn't off/different.

FWIW my TDS from brewhead, once cooled to room temp, still reads 33 TDS as it always has.

Sounds like a thermosyphon stall.

What could cause that? Could my recent FCD install just need to be tightened more at the mushroom? No leaks but I didn't go too tight.

I also just lubed my brew lever cam shaft, any chance I could have done something wrong there which would impact? First time... seems back on and functioning normal?

Or inlet water pressure from the line too low? I was at 20psi and have since turned it up a bit.

I take it back -- while it sounds like a thermosyphon stall, the grouphead is warmed by a thermosyphon through the brew boiler, so there's not much chance of obstruction. From the parts diagram, see parts #2 and #7 (left) below:



They connect with parts #39 and #40:



Not sure what's going on.

Just to check: If it was a thermsyphon stalls, because of a steam bubble, you would also see an usually long delay between turning on the pump and water starting to flow through the grouphead. To eliminate this possibility, try drawing water and then slowly lowering the brew group handle (IIRC, someone once reported a brew thermosyphon stall if they cut off the water flow very suddenly).

Thanks so much for the help. I'm wondering if I had a fluke here?

I just pulled a shot and the temp about 10 seconds after pull of shot was 156F. This seems to be bang on with what spromotheus measured here: So perhaps my temps are normal and I just got a cool shot from an overly fine ground ristretto pull that took 40 seconds? Or from a temporary issue that self resolved?

My machine seemed to be able to flash boil when I turned up the PID to 220. I tightened down my FCD just a hair more. I flushed a bunch of water through fiddling. I just don't know what could have happen.

Interesting about the handle turning off quickly causing a stall. Who knows maybe that was it. I didn't see any unusually long delay at any point IIRC.

Tangent - is setting the PID to 220F for a few min and letting the machine flash boil hard on the machine at all?

No, setting it higher doesn't really matter. Most E61 espresso machines have a +20°F delta between the boiler's actual temperature and final brew temperature at the grouphead anyway.

I see, so 199F on PID = 179F at brewhead is pretty standard? Or do you mean the PID accounts for the delta in its programming?

I guess taking temp of water in a pitcher will be about 10F cooler then at shower screen due to losing temp to ambient immediately. And water may lose some heat upon shower screen contact too.

What are other peoples temps of brewhead water in a pitcher? What about shot temp 10 seconds after pull?

For me, it's 175F-180F of brewhead water in a pitcher right after. And 156F for a shot about 10 seconds after. That's with my PID set to 199F. I don't have the hardware to properly measure the actual brewhead water temp between puck/shower screen and brewhead. But the reference point would be helpful.

The offset varies. As an example, the Profitec Pro 700, which is basically the same espresso machine as yours, has a 34°F offset. From the Profitec Pro 700 Review:



The E1 setting is the delta. You can check yours by scrolling through the PID settings.

As for measuring the brew temperature, in-cup temperature as proxy is wildly inaccurate. If you really want to double-check, the foam cup method or DIY thermofilter are far more accurate.