Do you leave your espresso machine on all the time? - Page 3

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Do you leave your espresso machine on all the time?

Yes
75
28%
No
196
72%
 
Total votes: 271

DaveC

#21: Post by DaveC »

Compass Coffee wrote:Wow 14 min per hr, ~23.33% idle heater on duty cycle :!: :?: :!: :?: I suspect an error in data collection, that's terrible. :evil:

My Bricoletta only has a 5.55% idle heater duty cycle. I did gain ~35% improvement back when I insulated the boiler with ceramic blanket. But even before not near 23%, more like 7.5% idle duty cycle with uninsulated boiler. I did my timings with minimum 2 hour warm-up and/or 1 hour after last shot. (tested multiple times)

I've run the math and my locale costs ~$3 per month to run my Bric' 24/7. So any potential $ savings from turning on/off/on/off... would be non-existent or infinitesimal at best.
Might be a small error, if so it's consistently applied, so the math is still valid. yes it could be less. I was working from memory, so didn't bother to check the logs, just went downstairs to measure it. I have just measured it and on average the heating element is on about 10 seconds in every minute. So 10 minutes in every hour. Sounds like your bric is much more efficient. Laws of thermodynamics still apply, so there must be some reason why, because heating elements are 100% efficient.

The point i am making, not to digress, is that it's not a saving in energy of only 5% to switch the machine off at night....it's much more than that. I also am not making the point about cost savings for prosumer machines, i think I said that in my first post (although with a big commercial, or 2/3 machines over 50 sites, the savings per annum would be considerable). You're right, the savings for you and I are insignificant as my machine costs 20p per day to have on for 12 hours....clearly nothing to worry about..but the repair bills for you and I to leave them on all night, might be something to get concerned about.

I am lucky I don't pay for spares, I get whatever I want free, but it could be expensive if I didn't and I still try to take as much care to avoid problems as possible.

e.g. There was a batch of 240V Gicar boxes floating around around 18 months ago, where the 12V transformer (within the Gicar Box) that controlled the autofill solenoid was quite sensitive to prolonged high temperatures. Machines left on all night in that scenario would certainly have hastened the demise of that component (if it was in the hot zone). Even the impending problem was quite evident as a brown mark on the label over the location of the 12V transformer. So for those of you with a 240V machine around 18 months old that has a Gicar box.....turn it off at night.

I had one of the first Alexs machine and as you can see my 240V gicar box had the problem (as shown in the attached picture) :lol: The brown mark was evident for some 4 months before it finally went. Replacement is easy a 10 minute job.

Image

Grant

#22: Post by Grant »

Compass Coffee wrote:My Bricoletta only has a 5.55% idle heater duty cycle. I did gain ~35% improvement back when I insulated the boiler with ceramic blanket. But even before not near 23%, more like 7.5% idle duty cycle with uninsulated boiler. I did my timings with minimum 2 hour warm-up and/or 1 hour after last shot. (tested multiple times)

I've run the math and my locale costs ~$3 per month to run my Bric' 24/7. So any potential $ savings from turning on/off/on/off... would be non-existent or infinitesimal at best.
Was curious so I did some timings today on my Bricoletta as well (for comparison/curiosity sake), and it is on for about 3-4 seconds out of every 78s when idle for anything longer than about 4 minutes.

Somewhere around a 5% duty cycle....since I am not timing to the nearest 10th of a second...that's as close as I get.

Bottom line, simply too inexpensive to worry about...and to be quite honest, I really don't care if it does/doesn't wear on the machine more...I am such a tinkerer, I look forward to changing parts, even upgrading to a new machine some day. A total meltdown would be just the justification I need to get that GS3.

Besides, I have ovens, lights, and water taps left on, doors left open, and temperatures have already hit -30c for a period this winter (err fall...winter started yesterday I guess). The COLD weather is still coming. My natural gas (which includes forced air furnace and hot water heating) bill jumped from $130 the month previous when the weather was a bit warmer, to $218 last month when the temps hit around -30 for almost 2 weeks. $3-4 a month for 24/7 espresso machine convenience doesn't worry me.

Hmm...thinking about it, the local providers give a $100 per year credit if you purchase natural gas AND electricity from them so they can combine all your costs on a single bill....over 2 free years of espresso machine usage for every 1 year I sign up.

Grant

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Psyd

#23: Post by Psyd »

DaveC wrote: Some logic in a theoretical example:

In the second instance, I warm it up at a cost of 5 energy units for 30 minutes, switch the machine off for 23 hours
Well, here's the flaw in your logic! Who do you know that turns the machine off for 23 hours? I pull a coupla doubles first thing in the morning, and a coupla more later in the morning. In the afternoon I may pull yet another one, and one more in the early evening. before I go to bed, I'm gonna have at least one tea, and so is my girlfriend. Re-calculate with the machine being cycled five or six time throughout the day, and use a four litre boiler (mines 12, so the argument is sorta moot with me as an example), and remember that a calorie is the energy required to raise one cubic centimeter of water one degree celsius. BTW, that's pretty much all the math I know on the subject, so I just felt that I had to toss that in somewhere. Here seemed the most appropriate.
DaveC wrote: In the long run all synthetics do not appreciate being hot for extended periods of time, in the same way as electronics. The thermal stress of heating and cooling a machine is also a VERY gradual process, unlikely to cause the damage they would like you to believe. And by god they don't want to make a commercial machine that lasts a lifetime :wink: :lol:
In the quote I posted from CMA, they pretty much said that it cost more in gaskets and such, but you save in maintenance issues. I just want to figure out if I'm gonna be able to 'set and forget' with the Alex MK II the way I have with the pro kit. So far, the responses have been less than informative.

The following portion moved to Getting to know the Alex Izzo. Please respond to anything in the following on that thread, per his request. Thanks!

From the thread in 'Marketplace', there are a few unanswered questions still floating around. Fer instance, what about 24-7 usage (BTW, I did see your answer, but it is from an end-user, and you gave it as advice and I took it as such, but I'd love to see the manufacturer or the distributor contradict you), the 220V to 110V wiring issue, and someone asked if it was certified for catering. We ask because these things will impact our decision on purchasing. If I can re-iterate, what was your hesitation in leaving her on 24-7?
there have also been a few posts referring to water leaks and fit issues, right out of the box, and I need to know that my plumbed machine isn't going to pee itself while I'm gone, and then commit suicide in the puddle with the on-switch in the on position. So far, there hasn't been a ream of evidence to relieve me of my concerns.
The machine sound real nice, but I think I'll wait till the early birds are done with beta-testing.
Espresso Sniper
One Shot, One Kill

LMWDP #175

DaveC

#24: Post by DaveC »

Psyd wrote:In the quote I posted from CMA, they pretty much said that it cost more in gaskets and such, but you save in maintenance issues. I just want to figure out if I'm gonna be able to 'set and forget' with the Alex MK II the way I have with the pro kit. So far, the responses have been less than informative. From the thread in 'Marketplace', there are a few unanswered questions still floating around. Fer instance, what about 24-7 usage (BTW, I did see your answer, but it is from an end-user, and you gave it as advice and I took it as such, but I'd love to see the manufacturer or the distributor contradict you), the 220V to 110V wiring issue, and someone asked if it was certified for catering. We ask because these things will impact our decision on purchasing. If I can re-iterate, what was your hesitation in leaving her on 24-7?
there have also been a few posts referring to water leaks and fit issues, right out of the box, and I need to know that my plumbed machine isn't going to pee itself while I'm gone, and then commit suicide in the puddle with the on-switch in the on position. So far, there hasn't been a ream of evidence to relieve me of my concerns.
The machine sound real nice, but I think I'll wait till the early birds are done with beta-testing.
I will make myself as clear as possible.

I consider it irresponsible to leave these machines on at night, from an environmental standpoint
I believe that more faults will result when they are left on continuously
I think it's a safety risk to leave them on when you are out of the house or asleep

I drive a hybrid vehicle, I recycle and I use the most energy saving (water saving) appliances I can, including energy saving lighting. I take these issues seriously because we have a responsibility to use resources as wisely as we can. I dont say everyone should be the same, that is a personal choice people have to make for themselves....it's just my choice.

As for the Alex, the only fault I have had on the MK I was a bad Gicar box, because a bad batch were produced by the manufacturer. Other than that the machine has performed faultlessly. I think any faults are the result of a new manufacturing line, but are minor, because the basics are grounded in a machine that has worked well in the MK I form. The current problems are so minor, and you have a very competent reseller in the US, I can't really see these things as any point for major concerns by purchasers.

I hope when you feel the "beta" testing is over, you decide to treat yourself to an Alex

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Psyd

#25: Post by Psyd »

DaveC wrote:I will make myself as clear as possible.
It wasn't that you were unclear, it was that your motivations weren't mentioned. Thanks, though, the information was just what I needed to figure out where you're coming from.
DaveC wrote:I consider it irresponsible to leave these machines on at night, from an environmental standpoint
I believe that more faults will result when they are left on continuously
I think it's a safety risk to leave them on when you are out of the house or asleep
While I think that turning it on and having it re-heat the water every couple of hours makes less sense. In the interest of saving energy, though, I'm looking for a replacement that'll use less energy all the way around, as I feel on those matters much the way that you do. As for the safety, I look to the manufacturer to guide me in that respect as well. There are many machines that are capable of being left on 24/7, and not all of them are espresso machines. My heater stays on when I'm away from the house, and when I'm asleep, and that uses a combustible gas to heat my house. The aforementioned water-heater is gas heated as well, and it's on year 'round.
DaveC wrote:I drive a hybrid vehicle, I recycle and I use the most energy saving (water saving) appliances I can, including energy saving lighting. I take these issues seriously because we have a responsibility to use resources as wisely as we can. I dont say everyone should be the same, that is a personal choice people have to make for themselves....it's just my choice.
And mine, much to the chagrin of some of my friends, when I dig into the garbage to retrieve the cans and paper that they've tossed in. Low-flow everything in the house, and the landscaping in my yard is pretty much indiscernible from the surrounding desert. If it'll live without any more water than what falls from the sky here (and that ain't much) then it gets to stay.
DaveC wrote:I think any faults are the result of a new manufacturing line, but are minor, because the basics are grounded in a machine that has worked well in the MK I form. The current problems are so minor, and you have a very competent reseller in the US, I can't really see these things as any point for major concerns by purchasers.
I hope when you feel the "beta" testing is over, you decide to treat yourself to an Alex
There are always bumps in the road to innovation, I just don't want to be that intrepid should that rides those waves. I like to be the guy that looks at the process, and gets the finished product (MK II.V?). Bless those that get their machines only to discover the manufacturing challenges, and point the way to perfection, as it is on their shoulders that my machine will arrive ready to go, out of the box.
Thanks for the contributions
Espresso Sniper
One Shot, One Kill

LMWDP #175

PhaetonFalling

#26: Post by PhaetonFalling »

I've got a fiorenzato fenice 2g Electronica.. hooked up to 220V...


Left ON 24/7... my dad blames our GINORMOUS electric bill on it... but he can't live without it, and really, neither can I...

It's still cheaper than paying for crappy nation-wide chain espresso, which runs 4 bucks a cup.. each.. with 4-5 espresso drinkers pulling at least 1 shot a day each, thats about 20-40 dollars a day worth of espressos, lattes, caps, etc.

Leaving it on 24/7 has saved us money.. you better believe it...

Sincerely,

Namson Pham

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Niko

#27: Post by Niko »

For the record I don't leave either of my S1's (Vivaldis I & II) on for 24/7 operation.
They might have a fast warm up time, each take 13 minutes in my household but they're nowhere nearly warmed up for true operation until much later. I don't use them unless I can feel the cups hot on top of the cup warmer and that's usually about 30-35 minutes on average. The group still needs a nice kick-start to get the temps going.
I never leave the VII on for longer than needed since it has a timer but other S1 stays on whenever I'm awake, it goes off when I go to sleep at night.

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Gui Marques

#28: Post by Gui Marques »

I have a Bezzera Strega (tank) at my office at the University, and I just can't leave it on full time.

The simple idea of the thing wasting energy heating water through the evening/night so that I can skip through a 50min warm up in the morning bothers the hell out of me. That's something that goes beyond the energy bill.

Now, technically, there's something else. Yesterday I forgot the machine on when I left. This morning, out of curiosity, I checked the water's temperature in the tank with a digital (0.1oC accurate) thermometer. The tank was half full and the water was at 42oC (107.6F).

I checked an Ulka's catalog (http://www.ceme.com/admin/moduli/m003_w ... KA_web.pdf and somewhere it reads:

"Ideal fluid: water at 25°C (maximum temperature)"

Thus I presume if one constantly pulls shots with hot water it may shorten the pump's life. Of course, eventually the tank will be refilled and the temp will be reduced, but still.

Gui

Abnuceals

#29: Post by Abnuceals »

I have a mini Vivaldi and technically it would pe possible to leave it on, all day long but I don't like the idea to let an unessential (almost essential) electrical appliance on, when there is nobody at home. I did not buy the timer with my mini because it is a real steal but I just fit my habits with the 40 minutes delay to heat the machine. FIRST thing when I get up, I kick off the mini (yes, the dog can wait a minute more). When I come back from work, my wife is already there and the mini is almost hot for another shot.
But hopefully, with my new La Pav pro, I can handle the emergencies in less than ten minutes.
LMWDP 389

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nikp81

#30: Post by nikp81 »

I have a gaggia baby dose and the procedure is to pre heating the machine for 15 minutes and after the shot i turn it off.. It is not a machine you can leave all day on..
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