I haven't quite pulled the trigger on a new machine, but I'm currently vacillating between a reservoir or a direct plumb manual e-61 machine (I like the idea of the manual aspect of the lever E-61 HX machines, and without knowing for sure, because I've never actually used one, I don't think a machine like a Vivaldi II would be as much fun, even if it produced more consistent temperature controlled shots from an aspiring/novice barista like me). I admit I've never actually done the water dance (current machine is a POS Gaggia Twin w/ a worthless non-functioning and leaking thermoblock and with pre-programmed dosing buttons that really aren't any fun), but the "water dance" actually seems like it would make each morning both interesting and slightly different tasting. Anyway, if I go with a direct plumb machine, will I need a water softener in addition to a filter to remove chlorine?

Our municipal water source in Salem, Oregon is basically Cascade Mountain snow melt. It is slow filtered through sand. It is very soft, but it still has some calcium and other minerals. According to an email this morning from our municipal water project director: "Current lab results from 2011 indicate the hardness in Salem's drinking water is 12.3 mg/L (0.719 grains per gallon) and calcium hardness is 9.7 mg/L (0.567 grains per gallon). Salem's drinking water is considered extremely soft water." So that's less than one grain of hardness and a little over 1/2 grain of calcium.

So, would it still be prudent to install an in-line water softener if I go with a direct plumb machine? Whenever I go back east or to the Mid-West and drink "softened" water, it tastes salty (and I realize I'm probably just spoiled on naturally good tap water). If I do go with a softener, what type should I go with? I've seen about three different kinds (resin, reverse osmosis, salt?, etc.). I'd rather descale every now and then as opposed to having salty water, and I've seen some posts here about installing a t-valve in the line for just that purpose. But if I need a softener I need one. I will put a filter in, just to remove the little bit of chlorine or fluorine they put into our water. Also, if I do utilize a softener, will I still end up having to descale every now and then?

I average about 6 double shots per day (3 regular in the morning and 3 decafs in the evening).

Thanks for your in put if you are able to reply. I know basically nothing about water softeners, as we generally don't use them out here.

I think you already know the answer. Your water supply is already softer than it should be. So softening would just make things worse. SCAA standards here: http://scaa.org/PDF/ST%20-%20WATER%20ST ... V2009A.pdf.

I have had my Astoria on EBMUD (Sierra Nevada snow melt) water for 14 years with no softener and no problems. A general purpose carbon filter for particle removal might be of value.
KDM

I see a lot of machines coming for repairs from salem ( we are just one hour south)
and scale is a factor
so my suggestion is:
invest to protect your investment

Thanks for the replies. I apologize, but I'm still a little confused.

(1) Marshall, if my water is already softer than it should be, what problems will I likely experience with or without a softener?
(2) Stefano indicates I could still use one to protect my machine. If so, what kind? A basic "resin" style? If so, is the softener going to add an unnatural flavor to the water?
(3) duke-one indicates 14 years of trouble free brewing with naturally soft water (The Bay Area has beautiful drinking water). Will I periodically need to descale a direct connect machine even with a water softener? Part of my confusion comes from the fact that it looks like my local untreated tap water (other than chlorine/fluorine) is already softer than a lot of "softened" water from other locations after its been run through a softener.

So, would it be imprudent of me to just run a good filter and then plan on descaling once a year or so with one of those "T" valves and a tank I've read about on other posts? Also, if I stick a softener in the line, will I nevertheless need to descale? Marshall, if your "softened" water is still harder than mine out of the tap, do you have to periodically descale even with a plumbed machine?

RecontraBacan wrote:Thanks for the replies. I apologize, but I'm still a little confused.

(1) Marshall, if my water is already softer than it should be, what problems will I likely experience with or without a softener?

If your water is as soft as your water district is telling you, it is ridiculously soft and should not cause any of the problems Stefano is reporting. So, there is a discrepancy somewhere.

Water that is too soft will not extract as much flavor as properly mineralized water and may be a bit more bitter. However, depending on how skilled you are, and what, if anything, you add to your espresso (milk, sugar, syrups), you may not notice the difference, anyway.

If your water company's report is accurate and reflects a fair average of the annual variations in hardness that may occur, I would consider not plumbing in at all and using good bottled drinking water (not "mineral water" or distilled water) in a pourover. This is what I did for many years.

Marshall: Thank you. I believe the water quality report is accurate. Every few years Salem tends to win "Best Municipal Water" in America or some other such award (but perhaps it's not the best water in America for espresso). I computed the "grains" myself from the published water quality report listing ppm on the city's website, and I came up with 0.7+ grains, and that was so low I figured I had made a mistake, so I emailed the water engineers for clarification. I think it's also an annual average, as I assume the mineral content goes up in the Summer when the Santiam River is fed more by springs than snow/glacial melt or runoff. Am I wrong in assuming that I'll eventually need to descale anyway (with or without a softener?). Isn't calcium and other metals like magnesium akin to plaque in the blood--if you have a great diet, it might not get you till you're 95, but it'll eventually get you? Or is it never a problem if the water is already very soft? I'm just having a comprehension problem understanding the need for a softener when my tap water is already softer than most treated water in other locations--and I'm told that people with water softeners in other locations never need to descale, they just need to recharge their softeners every year or so. What am I missing?

RecontraBacan wrote:I'm just having a comprehension problem understanding the need for a softener when my tap water is already softer than most treated water in other locations--and I'm told that people with water softeners in other locations never need to descale, they just need to recharge their softeners every year or so. What am I missing?

You have no need for a softener, and in home use, it is doubtful you will ever need to descale.

Do you have anything like a kettle that has been in regular use in your house that you could look inside to check for scale build up?

Yeah, there's never any scale build-up on any of the pots, dog bowls, etc., but I know there is still some calcium and other heavy metals in the water that I assume would eventually build up. Maybe I'll just need to do a preventive descaling every year or so like I'd do with a pour over machine. Do most people who have harder water and use a softener still need to descale their direct connect machines once a year or so? Thanks if you know.

Mike