Did the PID/Steam pressure upgrade on Profitec Pro 700. Now have low brew pressure

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Phillipla

Postby Phillipla » Feb 08, 2019, 9:59 pm

Hey guys

If you could offer any advice to check... I did the PID/Steam pressure upgrade on Pro 700 and Im getting a low brew pressure now.

When turned ON, the pressure gauge fights between 1-2 bars and after 7-8 seconds begins to slowly slowly climb up to 9 bars... then holds steady at 9.

It takes about 6-10 seconds to achieve 9 bars. I think I may have done something wrong in the install process of the PID upgrade and steam boiler valve.

Is there anything I should check specifically? Thanks for your help

Also, i noticed some coffee grinds in my water tank. Im a noobie and just doing my first back flushes, Cafiza, etc. Also I wipe the shower screen from any coffee grinds each time I pull a shot. Not sure if this is all related! But any help is appreciated.

On a positive note the Steam upgrade is fantastic, we cant mess up the microfoam now. Its good everytime.

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Phillipla

Postby Phillipla » Feb 09, 2019, 4:22 am

If there is anything here I can check, let me know. Thanks

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HB
Admin

Postby HB » Feb 09, 2019, 8:44 am

Phillipla wrote:It takes about 6-10 seconds to achieve 9 bars. I think I may have done something wrong in the install process of the PID upgrade and steam boiler valve.

For an E61, a delayed pressure rise is normal since it takes time for the brew chamber and preinfusion chamber to fill; see Bill Crossland's excellent explanation of the mechanics in Internals of an E61 Brew Head and Is there a purpose for the E61 middle brew lever position? Keep in mind that the pressure gauge shows pump pressure, not brew pressure since the tee is located upstream of the gicleur in the brew head. If after reading these threads you're concerned all is not right, please post a video.

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Annotated version of Lino Verna's E61 diagram
Dan Kehn

Jenda

Postby Jenda » Feb 09, 2019, 9:19 am

Hi Phillipla,

on my Profitec 700 it takes 3-5 seconds to build the full pressure. I recommend you to check the water debit, it should be around 100ml/10s and if it is lower I recommend you to check the gicleur for any scale.

Jan

U2jewel

Postby U2jewel » Feb 09, 2019, 10:28 am

I might be barking up the wrong tree.. but worth a check.

Since doing your steam/PID upgrade would have required you to remove the brew boiler, my bet is that it's got an air pocket in the brew path somewhere..

Mechanically nearly identical to Synchronika, I've experienced this phenomenon after a rebuild.

If, when you raise the brew lever, accompanying a slight gargling and buzzing noise (which probably wasn't there before), you get an erratic fluttering of the pressure gauge, I might be able to help you.

2 possible culprits. One is air pocket somewhere between your water tank feed and group head. It could be anywhere. The other is water tank connection. Try in the order listed, to see if it fixes the issue (least hassle to most troublesome).

1) With one hand, press down on the white water tank, pretending it's not seated properly, and while pushing the tank down, bring up the Brew lever. If the connector on the water tank is not seated deeply enough, it seems to suck air a bit while drawing water from the tank, introducing air into the brew path. If this fixes it, your rebuild was inaccurate, maybe a misaligned top panel, not allowing the tank to sit low and deep enough.

2) If (1) didn't fix it, then it's an air pocket somewhere. Cold machine, loosen the mushroom slightly (maybe one rev.. Enough to make it leak water) bring up brew lever and run until a few seconds worth of water has run out from the mushroom, top of the group head.. Then while running the water, tighten and close the mushroom.

3) Hoping you didn't have to end up doing this, but you might need to push the air pocket out. You'll need to get a big plastic syringe and prime the pump. Disconnect one of the silicone tubes that comes out from the water tank. I recommend directly from the plastic nozzle of the tank itself.

Flip the Switch behind the drip tray forthe water supply from tank to line, because likely your water tank is remove at this point.

With a big plastic syringe filled full of water, connect it carefully to that silicone tube you just disconnected, being careful not to introduce large and new air pockets.

Then, in one smooth action, basically you need to start pushing the syringe down one handed (syringe won't budge, don't worry). Keep pushing on that syringe, while with the other hand, switch on the machine with the brew lever raised already. This activates the pump, and suddenly, it'll seem the syringe is being sucked. But the aim is to force feed the water, so this is when you start to push the syringe faster/harder.

This all goes very quickly. But be ready to turn the machine off before you run out of water in the syringe.

Turn the machine off, then carefully reattach that silicone piping to is rightful place without ceasing new air pockets.

Snoroqc

Postby Snoroqc » Feb 09, 2019, 12:10 pm

Jenda wrote:Hi Phillipla,

on my Profitec 700 it takes 3-5 seconds to build the full pressure. I recommend you to check the water debit, it should be around 100ml/10s and if it is lower I recommend you to check the gicleur for any scale.

Jan

Same here.

Phillipla

Postby Phillipla » Feb 09, 2019, 2:17 pm

Thanks U2Jewel,

I think I have an air pocket in the brew/water lines after my rebuild.

I tried step 1, removing top plate and lid and pushing water reservoir down and the loud motor/gurgling noise remains.... then quiets after 7-8 seconds once the pressure raises to 9 bars.

** Note: I do remember the noise of the machine elevating after I did the PID upgrade, so the air pocket must have been introduced once I took everything apart and put back together. Thanks for help getting this fixed everyone.

I will wait on Step 2 and 3.. until I post this video for you to see and some pics


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U2jewel

Postby U2jewel » Feb 09, 2019, 2:55 pm

Saw the video. Yes, it sounded just like my machine.

Lets try bleeding from the mushroom first, but I feel maybe the syringe is necessary.

Is surprisingly easy to put it back "not right", despite the care and attention that I thought was giving. I like to change the color of my machine with wraps, and have over the past year taken my machine apart at least 6 times. Each time, a new cause was found, I added it to the list of check points..which reminds me of another episode and a possibility.

That silicone tubing from the water tank is prone to getting kinked when putting back together. When you put the water tank holder (metal box) back into the chassis, make sure it's not twisted or bent in a way that it can impede smooth water flow.

Having checked the tubing, and if still no joy, then you might want to get that syringe. The one I used was about 6 inches long, nearly an inch in diameter. Bigger the better! If you look at the 2 YouTube links, it'll give you an idea how to get it done.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQiVP5ijdIk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8AnSY4luTe8

Phillipla

Postby Phillipla » Feb 09, 2019, 6:35 pm

Found the issue. THank you guys.

The electrical cords inside were resting on the water reservoir lines and kinked it slightly.

Moving the elex wires around and changing the position of the water lines, made a nice U-turn now, and no more pressure issues.
And no more loud noise from the pump.

Thanks everyone. Maybe this help others in a PID upgrade in the future

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Phillipla

Postby Phillipla » Feb 09, 2019, 8:38 pm

Also found a big zip tie which held the small water pump against the big pump... was snapped in half. Maybe from shipping.

I took it out and replaced with a new zip tie and no more pump vibrations. Silent now ⭐️